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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 9 July 2025
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Displaying 5973 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 13 June 2023

Edward Mountain

We move on to agenda item 3, which is evidence on progress towards Scotland’s deposit return scheme.

At our meeting on 25 April, the committee agreed to invite the Minister for Green Skills, Circular Economy and Biodiversity to provide a further update on progress in implementing the deposit return scheme.

The draft Deposit and Return Scheme for Scotland Amendment Regulations 2023 were laid in Parliament on 17 May. The instrument is laid under the affirmative procedure, which means that the Parliament must approve it? before? it ?comes ?into force. It gives effect to the announcement of an intended postponement of the start date of the scheme from August 2023 to March 2024. The Scottish Government has since announced that it proposes to delay the launch date to October 2025, stating that the scheme

“cannot go ahead as ... planned.”—[Official Report, 6 June 2023; c 3.]

The minister wrote to the committee about her intention to revisit the draft regulations that are on today’s agenda. We have therefore allocated just over an hour for this evidence session to allow some discussion with the minister about recent developments and the Scottish Government’s proposal to revisit the scheme. Following the evidence session, the committee will be invited at the next agenda item to consider a motion to approve the instrument.

Minister, I am sorry for keeping you waiting this morning, but we had some matters to iron out first. I welcome you to the committee and, for those who do not know—I am sure that everyone does—you are the Minister for Green Skills, Circular Economy and Biodiversity. I also welcome, from the Scottish Government, Ailsa Heine, solicitor; David McPhee, deputy director of the deposit and return scheme; Euan Page, head of UK frameworks; and Haydn Thomas, head of the deposit and return scheme policy unit. Thank you for joining us.

We are also joined by Maurice Golden. Maurice, I will offer you the opportunity to ask questions near the end of our session.

I remind everyone that the officials can speak under this agenda item, so if members require answers on anything in the regulations, they will need to raise their question under this item.

Minister, you now have the opportunity to make a short opening statement.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Transfer of Operation of ScotRail

Meeting date: 30 May 2023

Edward Mountain

I made that point. I understand that the role of booking office staff is not just about selling tickets. I was simply interested in finding out what proportion of tickets were sold at booking offices. It might be a question of repurposing roles, rather than staff necessarily selling tickets, given the importance of keeping people there.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Transfer of Operation of ScotRail

Meeting date: 30 May 2023

Edward Mountain

I am not disputing the points that people have made about security and looking after railway stations. I am simply interested to know how many people buy tickets at a station rather than using the technology that we have to do it online.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Transfer of Operation of ScotRail

Meeting date: 30 May 2023

Edward Mountain

No, no, Kevin, I see and hear your passion, but I have to mix the committee up to make sure that all members get their questions in. I think that Liam Kerr has one more question.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Transfer of Operation of ScotRail

Meeting date: 30 May 2023

Edward Mountain

I am going to wrestle this back to try to let Liam Kerr in, as he has been waiting patiently.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Transfer of Operation of ScotRail

Meeting date: 30 May 2023

Edward Mountain

I am trying to understand the reporting structures. The more complicated they are, the more difficult it is to see a way through. You think that the structures work, but I was under the impression that the unions do not think that they work or think that they are opaque. The unions tried but struggled in part to explain the structures.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Transfer of Operation of ScotRail

Meeting date: 30 May 2023

Edward Mountain

Ash Regan will ask the first questions.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Transfer of Operation of ScotRail

Meeting date: 30 May 2023

Edward Mountain

The next questions will come from me. The moving annual average performance target is one of the key assessments of how well the railway network is operating. The Scottish Government constantly said that Abellio was failing them—I remember Alex Hynes having to answer questions about that in a previous committee. We now have fewer trains and we are still not meeting the target. Can someone explain that to me?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Transfer of Operation of ScotRail

Meeting date: 30 May 2023

Edward Mountain

I still have not had an answer to the question. Abellio was reaching roughly the same targets that you are reaching now, but it was running more trains—so it was a more cluttered landscape—and it was criticised constantly by the Scottish Government for failing to reach the target. However, you are now saying that it is okay if that target is not met, because the service is in public ownership.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Transfer of Operation of ScotRail

Meeting date: 30 May 2023

Edward Mountain

I understand that the Government will choose the ownership structure; I was just saying that we criticised Abellio for not reaching targets, but you are not reaching the targets at the moment, so should you not be criticised?