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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 12 July 2025
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Displaying 5973 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Edward Mountain

Bob Doris has a quick question.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Edward Mountain

I have a few quick-fire questions, because we are very nearly at the end of our session. The first question is for Olly Hughes. You said that Gresham House has managed land. It also owns land, does it not? If so, how much land does it own?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Edward Mountain

Okay. If you could perhaps let us know how much land Gresham House owns, that would be useful.

I am a little concerned. We have talked about releasing money by selling things into the future. To me, the risk seems unquantifiable for 99 years and for 50 years. Farmers may well need those carbon credits to be able to continue to farm, because one thing is for sure: industries will force down to the primary producer their obligations to reach net zero. There is a huge risk.

Forestry and Land Scotland and NatureScot have no risk. Between them, they own 670,000 hectares of Scotland. Should they trade all their credits? Would that be your advice to them?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Edward Mountain

Would you advise it to do that, Joel Paterson, if you were trading for it?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Edward Mountain

Yes, but it owns land such as Cairn Gorm mountain and the surrounding areas, which does not necessarily have trees.

On that, if PIUs are being traded in the future, what is a PIU worth? Is it 50p? Is it 21 quid?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Edward Mountain

I am just trying to get a handle on it. Is it one, two or three PIUs? Is it somewhere between one and 10, or is it somewhere between 10 and 100? I do not know.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Edward Mountain

Thank goodness for that. Dr Beingessner is a social researcher in transformative land management at the James Hutton Institute. I also welcome Dr Lydia Cole, lecturer, University of St Andrews; Dr Josh Doble, policy manager, Community Land Scotland; and Jo Pike, deputy chair, Scottish Forum on Natural Capital and chief executive, Scottish Wildlife Trust. Thank you all for joining us.

We have quite a lot of questions and, as I have said previously, I would encourage everyone to give succinct answers. The first question will be from Jackie Dunbar.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Edward Mountain

I will.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Edward Mountain

Because I mismanaged the time so badly, I will not get to ask my questions. They would have been about the size of the problem and the large scale of the projects that are needed to try to achieve what we want to achieve and how we can actually achieve it. I still have not been convinced that I understand how we can mitigate the risks to people who derive a living from the land from trading carbon credits. That remains a huge concern to me. However, I will leave it there. I suspect that we will come back to the subject when we consider land reform at some stage.

I thank all of you for the evidence that you have given this morning. I am sorry that time was tight. I will push straight on. Please extricate yourself quietly from the meeting so that I can move on to the next agenda item.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Natural Capital Finance

Meeting date: 26 March 2024

Edward Mountain

Interestingly, you said that there is an opportunity for benefit, but benefit usually comes with risk. There is zero risk with a wind farm; it will go up and the turbines will turn, so we know what will happen. There is a huge risk with natural capital, because we do not know what the obligations are. Should there be risk sharing as well as benefit sharing? You can give a yes or no answer to that.