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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 5 November 2025
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Displaying 6300 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 September 2025

Edward Mountain

No. I was simply going to suggest that, before you go on to your next line of questioning, which I think is on agriculture, it might be appropriate to take a wee break. We have been going for an hour and 45 minutes, so I suggest that we take a 10-minute comfort break until 10.55 to allow everyone to stretch their legs before we continue.

I suspend the meeting for 10 minutes.

10:44 Meeting suspended.  

10:55 On resuming—  

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 September 2025

Edward Mountain

Welcome back. Bob Doris, I apologise for cutting you off as you were about to launch into the next bit. Over to you.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 September 2025

Edward Mountain

Before we move on from the issue of heat pumps, I have a question. I am thinking about a two-bedroom, two-public room house with a kitchen and a bathroom, which was built before 1950. As a surveyor, I would estimate that, by the time you have put in the heat pump, insulated the house and replaced all the equipment in it, it would cost between £30,000 and £40,000. Those are the sort of figures that I have been given by the industry. If electricity prices were to reduce the price of heating the house by £500 a year, it would take 70 years for somebody to pay back that cost.

How will you encourage somebody to buy in to replacing an oil system that is running at the moment and to spending, say, £30,000 to £35,000 on a heat pump system for their house if they do not have that money in the first place and it will take them 70 years to pay it back? I am just trying to get a price for individuals so that they understand what this will cost them. It will then be up to them to make a decision. Are the figures that I have quoted unreasonable?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 September 2025

Edward Mountain

I have a couple of questions. One of my concerns is that, in Scotland, herd reduction has been going on apace for many years. Numbers have been decreasing naturally, as Mark Ruskell suggested. The problem is that reducing livestock numbers will undoubtedly affect small-scale producers, who will feel that it is no longer possible for them to continue farming if the returns from their animals are reduced because they are asked to keep fewer of them. In my opinion, it will disadvantage small-scale producers.

I support the Government making some moves to reduce the calving interval, but farmers as a whole have increased maternal traits of their cows, which means that less is driven by bags. There is also earlier finishing. Most farmers can produce an animal for the table in 11 months, but they are not allowed to sell it as Scotch beef until it is 12 months old. They are forced to keep it for another month until it becomes Scotch beef, in effect, which seems bizarre to me.

Farmers have also driven with less intervention and they have followed the old principles of Turnip Townshend. Eoin, I am sure that you have looked back at those. They are about crop rotation and making sure that mixed farming is going on. That is what we should be driving towards, rather than, say, putting trees in pastures, which to my mind comes with problems regarding flies. That causes problems with all the cows and livestock that are there.

Do you not think that having a more integrated and clever farming system, with mixed farming at the core of farming in Scotland, would be a better approach than just having a blanket reduction in livestock numbers?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 September 2025

Edward Mountain

While you are there, Dr Devane, could you just answer a simple question for me? As a more balanced pathway to net zero, the Climate Change Committee suggested a 6 per cent shift from car use to public transport use. What does that mean per car user in the UK? How many kilometres will they have to shift? Six per cent does not mean very much to me, and I doubt that it means very much to the car user.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 September 2025

Edward Mountain

I will bring in Mark Ruskell before I delve into that too deeply.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 September 2025

Edward Mountain

I thank both witnesses for their very interesting evidence today, and I would encourage them to follow up on the issues on which they said that they would get back to the committee. They should know that the clerks will be in contact to remind them what those issues are, so that information can be circulated to members.

We will now move into private session.

12:01 Meeting continued in private until 12:32.  

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 24 June 2025

Edward Mountain

The result of the division is: For 5, Against 2, Abstentions 0.

Amendment 536 agreed to.

Amendment 537 not moved.

Amendment 299 moved—[Mairi Gougeon].

Amendments 299A and 299B not moved.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 24 June 2025

Edward Mountain

The result of the division is: For 5, Against 2, Abstentions 0.

Amendment 304 agreed to.

Section 24, as amended, agreed to.

Section 25 agreed to.

After section 25

Amendment 520 not moved.

Sections 26 and 27 agreed to.

After section 27

Amendment 305 moved—[Mairi Gougeon].

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 24 June 2025

Edward Mountain

The result of the division is: For 2, Against 5, Abstentions 0.

Amendment 543 disagreed to.

Amendment 227 not moved.

Amendments 228 and 229 moved—[Mairi Gougeon]—and agreed to.

Section 10, as amended, agreed to.

After section 10

Amendment 230 moved—[Mairi Gougeon].