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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 15 August 2025
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Displaying 5978 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 November 2024

Edward Mountain

We do need to get back to the original questions on criteria and thresholds. I will let you ask this question, Bob, and then I will bring in the deputy convener.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 November 2024

Edward Mountain

Thank you, Michael.

Mark, will you ask your first set of questions? I will then come in with a question before you move on to your second set.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 November 2024

Edward Mountain

We have actually stretched this evidence session longer than I had anticipated, so I briefly suspend the meeting for five minutes to allow for a comfort break.

10:48 Meeting suspended.  

10:54 On resuming—  

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 November 2024

Edward Mountain

I know, and I am going to blow the whole thing by asking a supplementary question.

I understand what you have just said, Josh, but interfering in the open market value by dictating who can buy something will depress the value of the land, will it not? Will it also not give rise to claims? I have been doing lotting for years, and it is a bit of a black art; you have to take into account what the market needs and what local individuals want and then try to strike a balance between the two. It can work very well, as we heard when we were on the Buccleuch estates, if you know what communities and individuals want. However, you seem to be suggesting that that is not the best way of doing this—or have I got that wrong?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 November 2024

Edward Mountain

You have just mentioned the one thing that always terrifies me, as a parliamentarian. You have said that, instead of dealing with the issue in primary legislation, we should just come up with some figures and then some guidance afterwards. As a parliamentarian, I am meant to pass legislation that I understand, but I cannot understand stuff that is not in the bill. That means that I have to leave it to someone else to do that at a later date—and that person might not be as reasonable as you are, Josh.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 November 2024

Edward Mountain

We will come to that in due course. I am now going to hand over—

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 November 2024

Edward Mountain

I think that this is one of those situations in which broadcasting is pressing one button to allow Jon to speak and Jon is pressing another one to allow himself to speak, and it is cancelling the permission that broadcasting has given him to speak. Can you hear us, Jon?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 5 November 2024

Edward Mountain

Good morning and welcome to the 32nd meeting in 2024 of the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee.

Our first item of business is a decision on taking business in private. Do members agree to take in private item 3, which is consideration of the evidence heard on the Land Reform (Scotland) Bill; item 4, which is consideration of the recommended candidates for appointment to the Scottish Land Commission; item 5, which is consideration of the committee’s work programme; and item 6, which is consideration of the committee’s pre-budget scrutiny letter?

Members indicated agreement.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 November 2024

Edward Mountain

Hold that thought. You will get Mark Ruskell’s question on it in a minute.

I go back to the point about thresholds and community consultation. I accept the point that Josh Doble made about the fact that, if someone has a relatively large estate, they are probably already drawing up plans. During our visits, the committee saw some very useful plans that were drawn up by Buccleuch estates and Atholl Estates, which have put those out to the community. In some other places that we visited, we did not see any plans. We have had a lot of talk about plans that are being developed.

Dropping the threshold to 500 hectares has been mentioned. With regard to small farmers, I think about all the things that I have to do, such as carbon budgets, soil testing maps, herd health plans, Scottish Quality Crops plans, Quality Meat Scotland plans for the livestock and all the other issues that I have to address in order to get my single farm payment or basic support payments—there are quite a lot of plans. You are suggesting that those people put their plans to the local community.

I have watched Forestry and Land Scotland carry out community consultations on forest plans. I am worried about the level of consultation that you think that small farmers and small landowners should do and how much that is going to cost them. You might like to see that. What level of consultation will be required? How many meetings will people have to hold? Who will they have to publicise the plans to? What will be the costs to individuals of drawing up the plans?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 November 2024

Edward Mountain

I think that you referred to land agents at some stage. I was a land agent at one point and I know that engaging with the local community—writing to it and meeting it—involved hours of work. I am sure that the pittance that I was paid when I was a land agent has gone up. The rate for a professional land agent is now probably not far off £250 an hour, so drawing up a plan could mean costs of £3,000 or £4,000 to carry out a community engagement exercise. Is that a reasonable cost for small family farms given that, in some years, it will be more than the profit that they make from agricultural operations?

10:30