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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 10 November 2025
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Displaying 6348 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Train and Bus Services

Meeting date: 29 April 2025

Edward Mountain

People might need to catch a bus, a train and a ferry.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Train and Bus Services

Meeting date: 29 April 2025

Edward Mountain

I am sure that you will twist CalMac’s arm following this meeting to make sure that that happens. Would you accept that integrated ticketing needs to go beyond just rail and sail tickets if we are to get people to use public transport?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Train and Bus Services

Meeting date: 29 April 2025

Edward Mountain

Our second item of business this morning is an evidence-taking session on the current state of Scotland’s rail and bus sectors. Today, we will hear from two panels, the first of which comprises representatives of bus operators, and the second, representatives of rail operators and owners and rail freight companies.

I am pleased to welcome Paul White, director, Confederation of Passenger Transport Scotland; David Frenz, operations director, Stagecoach; Duncan Cameron, managing director, First Bus Scotland; and Sarah Boyd, managing director, Lothian Buses.

We will move straight to questions, and I have—[Interruption.] I am sorry—I failed to do this last week, too, so at this point I should say that Monica Lennon has sent her apologies and Sarah Boyack is attending the meeting as her substitute. I am not going to welcome you to the meeting, Sarah, because this is your second week in a row here and you are becoming a bit of a fixture on the committee. You are always welcome, though.

The first question is an easy one to warm you up. The continuing reductions in bus services and passenger patronage over the past few years have been a problem. How can we reverse those declines and get more people on to buses as well as more bus routes?

Who would like to start off? Actually, I will give you all a chance to answer, just to make sure that you are all on point. Paul, do you want to start?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Train and Bus Services

Meeting date: 29 April 2025

Edward Mountain

Duncan, do you want to add anything? Last week, we heard people asking for green and pleasant buses to travel in.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Train and Bus Services

Meeting date: 29 April 2025

Edward Mountain

Okay, so you are refuting my comment, and Joanne is accepting it. Is that right?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Train and Bus Services

Meeting date: 29 April 2025

Edward Mountain

That has gone on slightly longer than I anticipated. Thank you for your evidence and for helping us this morning. I will briefly suspend the meeting to allow a change of witnesses. Committee members, please be back in your seats for 11 o’clock. Thank you.

10:55 Meeting suspended.  

11:01 On resuming—  

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Train and Bus Services

Meeting date: 29 April 2025

Edward Mountain

Welcome back. On our second panel we have Joanne Maguire, managing director, ScotRail Trains Ltd; Liam Sumpter, managing director, Network Rail Scotland, representing Scotland’s Railway; Graham Kelly, commercial and procurement director, Caledonian Sleeper Ltd; and Martin Bignell, Scotland and north of England representative of the Rail Freight Group. We will move straight into questions and I get the easy one to warm you all up before the difficult ones that the committee has for you.

I will make a comment. There has not been a significant improvement in ScotRail’s or Caledonian Sleeper’s performance since they were nationalised, despite ScotRail running fewer services. We are now at the point at which the public performance measure that caused Abellio and Serco to be replaced is not being met by the current operators. Can somebody explain that to me? Joanne, do you want to start on why you are doing worse than Abellio and are running fewer trains?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Train and Bus Services

Meeting date: 29 April 2025

Edward Mountain

Pick your two people to ask, Michael.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Train and Bus Services

Meeting date: 29 April 2025

Edward Mountain

I am sure that, if you ask Aberdeen City Council about that, it will, in the spirit of openness, tell you.

Kevin Stewart has the next question on this topic.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Train and Bus Services

Meeting date: 29 April 2025

Edward Mountain

Oh, sorry. Yes—it was in the budget the year before, so it is two years now that it has been out.