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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 26 July 2025
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Displaying 5973 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Edward Mountain

The deputy convener has some follow-up questions.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Edward Mountain

It is part of the valuation. Let me give you a perfect example. Andrew lives on the edge of the village, providing employment for a couple of people and running a sanctuary for animals; another person called Mairi, who lives at the other end of the village, does some small-scale farming; and then there is Keith, the big landowner round about, who wants to increase the size of his farm. Keith knows that he will have to pay more than Mairi to get the whole lot as one, and Mairi knows that she will have to pay a proportion on top of the open market value if she wants to get it, as will Andrew. How do you balance that? How do you assess that, given that it will be you, as cabinet secretary, who will have to agree what the open market value is? I just see the whole thing ending up in the courts every single time the Government makes a lotting decision. It is such a difficult thing to do, and I say that as somebody with 12 years’ practice of trying to do it.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Edward Mountain

As you are answering these questions, Andy, do you predict that ministers will end up paying more for the land if the purchase was achieved by lotting than would be achieved otherwise?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Edward Mountain

I am saying that those investors who are helping the Government and Scotland to achieve our net zero aims are frightened that lotting will depress their ability to deliver at scale—indeed, they all said that. What are your views on that? Are they right, or are they wrong?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Edward Mountain

Well, cabinet secretary, it is your call, not his—do you want to bring him in?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Edward Mountain

How much?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Edward Mountain

Before we leave this area, I have a couple of quick questions. Imagine a 3,000-hectare holding with four communities around it, which is quite possible. You want the plan to involve engagement with local communities. What do you envisage that the person drawing up the plan will do? How will he or she engage with the local community?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Edward Mountain

What are the principles that you sign up to?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Edward Mountain

Our second item of business is our final evidence-taking session on the Land Reform (Scotland) Bill. I am pleased to welcome Mairi Gougeon, the Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs, Land Reform and Islands, and her supporting officials from the Scottish Government: Andy—Andrew, I mean; sorry—Proudfoot, bill team leader, and Keith White, solicitor. Thank you for attending. I also welcome Rhoda Grant to the meeting.

Before we go into the main part of the meeting, I will, as I have done at every meeting on the bill, declare an interest in a family farming partnership in Moray, as set out in my entry in the register of members’ interests. Specifically, I declare an interest as the owner of approximately 500 acres of farmland, of which approximately 50 acres is woodland; I also declare that I am a tenant of approximately 500 acres in Moray under a non-agricultural tenancy, and that I have another farming tenancy under the Agricultural Holdings (Scotland) Act 1991. I also declare that I sometimes take on annual grass lets.

Before we move to questions, the cabinet secretary will make a brief opening statement.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 February 2025

Edward Mountain

The process has been long and we have heard a lot of evidence from a wide variety of people. Your wish is for the bill to achieve four things: to improve the transparency around land ownership and management; to strengthen communities’ rights; to improve the sustainable development of communities by increasing opportunities; and to ensure the sufficient and adequate supply of land—I think that that encapsulates your views. Bearing that in mind, the majority of people who have come to the committee to give evidence say that the bill will achieve no such thing. What is your response to them?