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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 9 November 2025
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Displaying 6348 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

Edward Mountain

No. We will come to your amendments in a moment. There are other members before you.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

Edward Mountain

Thank you, cabinet secretary.

Although Mark Ruskell moved Ariane Burgess’s amendment 310, Ariane has now finished with her other committee business and is here. We have agreed that Mark Ruskell will sum up the debate and press or seek to withdraw amendment 310, but please do not take it as a slight that I am ignoring you, Ariane—I know that you are here.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

Edward Mountain

Thank you, Douglas. As no other member wishes to say anything, I wish to talk about amendments 310, 339, 150 and 174, which relate to public interest.

I understand the need to address public interest, and I have heard what has been said about it during the course of this stage 2 debate. My concern is that a certain amount of conflict would be created by the list of things in subsection (2) of the proposed new provision that amendment 310 would introduce. When you draw up a management plan as the owner of land, you cannot keep everyone happy—that is for sure—and you cannot afford to do everything that everyone wants to do. There is no definition or clarity in any of these amendments about public interest in relation to who is going to pay the person who delivers the public interest and whether, in fact, that person should be rewarded for that.

At the moment, the system pays agricultural subsidies for achieving various aims. I put my hand up and say that I am in receipt of agricultural subsidies for delivering public good in relation to the production of food.

Proposed new subsection (2)(k), as set out in amendment 310, is about contributing to food security and food system resilience. Another paragraph in proposed subsection (2) relates to a requirement for diversity. The problem is that, sometimes, intensive grazing of land to create food security is the best way forward but it might not be in the Government’s interest. At the moment, the Government is struggling to come to terms with the advice of the Climate Change Committee on whether to reduce livestock numbers across Scotland by 30 per cent. That might destroy farms and farmers who would not be able to achieve the scale needed to carry out their business. I am concerned, and I do not think that any of the tests that have been put forward under amendments 310, 339, 150 or 174 define how public interest and its delivery will be rewarded.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

Edward Mountain

There will be a division.

For

Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green)

Against

Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP)
Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con)
Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP)
Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

Edward Mountain

Sorry, Mercedes, but can I just come in here? It is always very difficult at stage 2 to make sure that there is an open debate, but it does not need to be a conversation across the table. I am gently pointing you to ask a question, which might be followed up by another question, through me, and then you can address the issues when you get to speak. Otherwise, I fear that we could be here until Christmas, which might be a good thing, but maybe not.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

Edward Mountain

I call Ariane Burgess to speak to amendment 3 and other amendments in the group.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

Edward Mountain

I call Mercedes Villalba to speak to amendment 43 and other amendments in the group.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

Edward Mountain

I call Douglas Lumsden to speak to his amendment 343. You do not have to repeat everything that you said when you spoke on behalf of Rachael Hamilton, Mr Lumsden, however tempting that might be.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

Edward Mountain

Mr Lumsden, I let you get that word in twice, but I will not let you get it in again. You can refer to the farm tax in relation to this bill. I am very proud of the fact that committees of this Parliament are apolitical. You can express your views about the tax, but not in that way.

I call Mark Ruskell to speak to amendment 49A and other amendments in the group.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

Edward Mountain

We are at a difficult point in the stage 2 proceedings, because we are about to go into another group, which will require debate and a series of votes. That would take us well beyond the time that I have allowed for our meeting this morning, so I propose that we hold it there. We have not got as far as we hoped, and we will have to work out what we are going to do as regards continuing our stage 2 consideration of the bill. We have that to look forward to. Cabinet secretary, we will be in contact with you once we have discussed our work programme.

I close the public part of the meeting.

12:17 Meeting continued in private until 12:53.