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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 18 July 2025
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Displaying 5973 contributions

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Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Edward Mountain

Donald Fraser, the convener can say whether you have time because I have one follow-up question.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Edward Mountain

Okay. If we accept zoning, I want to know how, within the Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill, you will take zoning into account and accept some damage by deer in certain areas if there is no damage by deer in other areas. That might be within a deer management group or, as you say, on an individual estate. To me, the legislation does not allow for that and it is a bit of a sledgehammer to crack a nut. Can you explain to me how NatureScot will allow for that?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Edward Mountain

I have done three deer management plans, albeit 20 years ago, and they involved a huge amount of work, given the number of people involved. The costs varied: without going into specifics, I think that the cheapest one was £25,000 and the most expensive was £50,000. Therefore, people should be careful what they wish for when it comes to deer management plans, because they are massive and complex, with a multitude of owners as well as different times of year for deer management. It is very complicated.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Edward Mountain

I am not sure that I agree.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Edward Mountain

My last question is specifically on some activity carried out by NatureScot on the North Ross deer management group earlier this year, when it spent £32,000 on providing helicopters to private estates to kill deer in difficult areas. Do the deer live in those areas because that is where they are not hounded day in, day out and because they are difficult areas to get to? Is it good management when you are doing that to allow only 21 per cent of the hinds that are in calf to be shot where, for the last five years, the average is about 40 per cent of hinds in calf shot in that area? You were definitely leaving calves on the hill.

You shook your head, Donald Fraser. You were not?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Edward Mountain

You would be surprised if I did not think about deer management, which is what we are talking about. I am sure that we would all have come prepared with that.

I have a follow-on question from that. Is deer management forming a mosaic of species? For example, in the low coasts of Moray, it may be barley; in Abernethy, it may be capercaillie, if they are not declining too far; in the Cairngorms national park, it may be Scots pine, if they are not being eaten by beaver; and on the west coast, it may be sessile oaks and the rainforest. All those areas are zoned. Should there be areas that are zoned for deer—such as Forestry and Land Scotland has—where greater numbers are allowed, with fewer allowed in areas where it is not appropriate to have them, such as new plantations? Do you agree with zoning?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Edward Mountain

Robbie Kernahan, this question is for you. Between us, we have probably taken part in or signed off the culling of several tens of thousands of red deer across Scotland. In a couple of sentences, bearing in mind the Deer (Scotland) Act 1996 and the proposed bill, can you define good deer management?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Edward Mountain

I have one further question, convener. I know that everyone is different. I am quite happy to provide a refuge for wildlife that are being persecuted around me, but not everyone is in that situation. One thing that is clear is that, if the Land Reform (Scotland) Bill is passed, ministers will have powers in respect of the lotting of estates that are over 1,000 hectares that are put on the market. That lotting can divide estates into small packages, which are then sold on. In contrast, the Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill is trying to achieve things with deer management over a bigger area because deer wander. If some of these estates, especially those across some of the more remote areas or in areas managed by Forestry and Land Scotland, are segmented up and sold off, which might be a good idea, will that affect what the Rural Affairs and Islands Committee is trying to achieve with the Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Edward Mountain

Sorry—it is a point of clarification. The committee may be minded to consider that, if the qualifications are required to be able to shoot deer, Police Scotland may interpret that as the qualifications also being required for ownership of a rifle capable of shooting deer—so rifle ownership may become limited, too. I think that that is a step too far—you do not need a qualification to shoot foxes, for example. The committee ought to ask the police their view of the interpretation of that provision. Sorry—that is just a point of clarification. Thank you. I will shut up now.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Edward Mountain

Thank you, convener. I am sorry that I was slightly late for the meeting; my watch is obviously not as accurate as yours.

I declare that I have been involved in deer management for over 25 years. I have written deer management plans for various sub-groups, in the Cairngorms and further north, some of which are still in place. I am involved in deer management at home on the farm, and I have taken a great deal of interest in it. Not all of that is in my register of interests, but I am sure that your committee members will understand that, for a landowner, deer need to be controlled and that they are controlled at home. Thank you, convener.