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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 22 June 2025
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Displaying 1956 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Douglas Ross

The result of the division is: For 3, Against 7, Abstentions 0.

Amendment 130 disagreed to.

Amendment 275 moved—[Pam Duncan-Glancy].

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Douglas Ross

There will be a division.

 

For

Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab)
Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD)

 

Against

Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP)
Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con)
Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP)
FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP)
Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green)
Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP)
Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind)
Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con)

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Douglas Ross

The result of the division is: For 4, Against 6, Abstentions 0.

Amendment 276 disagreed to.

Amendment 277 not moved.

Amendment 278 moved—[Pam Duncan-Glancy].

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Douglas Ross

There will be a division.

For

Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con)
Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab)
Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green)
Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD)
Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con)

Against

Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP)
Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP)
FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP)
Haughey, Claire (Rutherglen) (SNP)
Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind)

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Douglas Ross

The question is, that amendment 17 be agreed to. Are we agreed?

Members: No.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Douglas Ross

Amendment 77, in the name of Ross Greer, is grouped with amendments 78, 311, 314, 324, 325, 172, 326, 327, 329, 330, 91, 335, 336, 343 and 352.

I point out that amendment 311 is pre-empted by amendment 158; amendment 314 is pre-empted by amendment 162; and amendment 336 is pre-empted by amendment 179. Amendments 158, 162 and 336 were previously debated in the group entitled “Independence of the Chief Inspector”.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Douglas Ross

I will wind up the debate by thanking the cabinet secretary and other members for their contributions. It has been a helpful and useful debate. There is general acceptance that there is an issue here. How we solve that issue is something that we can discuss on a cross-party basis. I agree that we should not tackle the issue in isolation.

I take on board the points that were made by Jackie Dunbar and the cabinet secretary, but we can only deal with what is in front of us—namely, the bill that we are seeking to amend.

I remember the cabinet secretary’s final words to me in our call on Monday. She said that she was going to look at the art of the possible with regard to this matter and, I hope, others. With a view to our looking at the art of the possible and having further discussions about that, I am not minded to press amendment 297.

Amendment 297, by agreement, withdrawn.

Amendments 298 to 301 not moved.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Douglas Ross

I spoke to my party’s SPCB representative this afternoon about that. I accept the points that have been made. However, I am clear that I want the role to be made through the corporate body, because I want that role to be completely independent from Scottish Government ministers and from the new qualifications Scotland.

When the amendments were first drafted by the legislation team, the role was to be an appointment by the Scottish ministers rather than the corporate body. I thought that, because of the concerns that the cabinet secretary has raised about the current operational independence of the SQA from Scottish Government ministers, it would be better to have a clean break and a truly independent individual and body. The way to facilitate that is through the corporate body—the parliamentary corporation.

I do not want to go over the ground of the discussions that we have had about higher history. However, it is worth remembering some of the comments that were made at the time. In response to a question that I raised in the chamber on the issue, the cabinet secretary said that she

“acknowledged the various concerns that have been raised by history teachers in the SATH survey responses and the need to rebuild trust and confidence.”—[Official Report, 9 January 2025; c 43.]

Some members of the committee believe that rebuilding trust and confidence will be done by the new individuals at the top of the SQA. I still believe that those people have to prove themselves in those roles. They have been in them for only a short period. I have not had the same positive experience as other members have had of meeting with the SQA—only today, my meeting with the SQA chief executive, chair and chief examiner has been cancelled for the third time. That will be rearranged, but it is proving difficult to have those discussions.

There is no doubt that teachers were deeply worried about the outcome of the SQA inquiry—they were worried about the findings and about the way in which the inquiry was established and carried out. There is no proof of this, but I believe that, had similar or identical results been produced by an independent individual, there would have been more acceptance of them. People still might not have been happy with the conclusions and I would still have been challenging some of them, but I think that a lot of the issues were caused by the lack of an independent individual looking at the situation, taking evidence and determining the conclusion.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Douglas Ross

There will be a division.

For

Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP)
Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con)
Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP)
FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP)
Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green)
Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP)
Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind)
Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD)
Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con)

Abstentions

Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab)

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Douglas Ross

Amendment 290, in the name of Stephen Kerr, is grouped with amendments 293, 294 and 296.