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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 8 December 2025
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Displaying 3123 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 November 2025

Douglas Ross

I know that it does, but it causes us significant problems that affect not just our committee but the Finance and Public Administration Committee. Real and strong concerns have been raised about a number of Government and non-Government bills. I experienced that myself.

The Government is continually criticised about the quality of financial memorandums. I find it really disappointing that, as minister, you have accepted figures that, as was pointed out earlier, are more than 10 years old. You are now looking for alternatives, but we needed those when the bill was introduced. You knew what was in the financial memorandum when you submitted it, so why did you and your officials not highlight those concerns at the time? Why are we now coming to our stage 1 report, and a vote in Parliament in a number of weeks, when work is still being done on the financial memorandum because you accept that it is deficient?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 November 2025

Douglas Ross

The COSLA quote is from its written submission, which you and the minister have read. Did reading it not raise alarm bells?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 November 2025

Douglas Ross

Yes.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 November 2025

Douglas Ross

Are you saying that what I have read out is incorrect?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 November 2025

Douglas Ross

That concludes questions from committee members. Minister, I say as politely but as strongly as possible that, as I think you know and your officials have accepted, we now have a very short timeframe in which to produce our report. You committed to write to the committee on a number of things. If that can be done in days rather than weeks, we will be able to include that information in our report. If it takes too long, the committee will be unable to consider that. I understand that you have time pressures and that this is not the only thing that you and your officials are working on, but I make that plea, as respectfully as possible. That would certainly help the committee.

I thank the minister and her officials for their time. The committee will now move into private session.

12:58 Meeting continued in private until 13:45.  

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 November 2025

Douglas Ross

The next item of business is the final evidence session on the Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill at stage 1.

I welcome Natalie Don-Innes, Minister for Children, Young People and The Promise, and her Scottish Government officials: Gavin Henderson, deputy director for keeping the Promise; Iona Colvin, chief social work adviser; Tom McNamara, head of youth justice and children’s hearings; and Barry McCaffrey, a lawyer in the legal directorate. Thank you all for joining us today.

Given the likely length of this evidence session, we have advised the minister and members that we will probably take a break in about 90 minutes, halfway through the session.

We will begin with an opening statement from the minister.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 November 2025

Douglas Ross

Thank you very much, minister. You describe it as a “personal honour” for you to take forward the bill, and we are led to believe that it is an important piece of legislation for the Scottish Government. Why, then, has there been so much criticism from a broad range of witnesses that your engagement and consultation in advance of the bill’s introduction were so poor?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 November 2025

Douglas Ross

So why is COSLA at pains to tell us how bad engagement has been with regard to the bill and with you and your officials?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 November 2025

Douglas Ross

That is the concern that it noted months ago.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 November 2025

Douglas Ross

Let us go through some of the criticisms that have been made. In his written submission, Sheriff Mackie, who you yourself mentioned, said:

“The lack of consultation during the preparation of the consultation document and then the drafting of the Bill has meant a lack of engagement with or input drawing on the expertise of the sector or those with lived experience of the Children’s Hearings.”