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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 23 October 2025
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Displaying 2633 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

No. I am sorry, but this is quite an important question. We have maybe two Cabinet meetings left before 26 September. You could even take a 50:50 punt and guess which one it might be, but you are suggesting that, at the moment, there is no knowledge within your department of when the Cabinet is going to be asked to discuss the matter. My point is going to be to ask what discussions on that there have been at the Cabinet so far.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

I bring in Liz Smith.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

The bill will fall if you do nothing before—

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

The issues with COSLA and the teacher unions are all clear in our stage 1 report, which is very balanced. They were highlighted in evidence and in the report, and the committee approved the general principles of the bill at stage 1, as did the Parliament.

All the considerations that you have just articulated to Jackie Dunbar are not considerations for your determination on the financial resolution. I presume that they were for whether you as an individual and the Government supported the bill at stage 1. They were not significant enough to make you vote against the bill at stage 1—you simply abstained. Surely, therefore, those issues have already been debated and discussed, and the will of the Parliament is that we should scrutinise the bill further at stages 2 and 3. Those issues are not a significant part of the financial resolution. We have done the bit about COSLA and the unions, it is in the stage 1 report and there have been two votes on it.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

It concerns me that, in a fortnight, you are going to make a decision without those figures. We have to go back to Ms Duncan-Glancy’s point that you have had five and a half months to get to the stage and you are still telling us and members of your own party that you do not know what the costs are. Are you going to take a decision without having all the information?

09:15  

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

Okay, we will move to Pam Duncan-Glancy.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

Do you agree with them?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

It is not about the financial resolution or spending in future. It is simply about taking a vote at stage 1 in the chamber of this Parliament, where an overwhelming majority of MSPs voted in favour of a bill progressing. We agreed the general principles, and we voted for the bill to progress to stage 2, which this committee can do. We could get you and the member in charge back in to discuss Government amendments and backbench amendments, and then we could have another debate at stage 3 and decide that it has not changed enough, that we have not met the threshold for the improvements that are needed and that therefore the bill will fall at stage 3. Parliament and parliamentarians would then have been given that opportunity. If you fail to lodge the financial resolution, there is no such opportunity.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

The member’s approximate cost for the bill is £30 million, and with some changes it could cost £50 million. We have also heard a £5 million figure today. If £30 million is too much for a financial resolution, what figure could the Government live with?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

It goes back to Mr Rennie’s point that, although you state that you are neutral on the bill, it sounds like you are against the bill at any cost.