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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 8 December 2025
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Displaying 3123 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 November 2025

Douglas Ross

The next item of business is evidence on the Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill.? I welcome our final panel of witnesses on the bill: Daniel Johnson, who is the member in charge of the bill, and, from the Scottish Parliament, Roz Thomson, who is head of the non-Government bills unit, and Caroline Mair, who is a solicitor. I thank them all for joining us.

Before I invite Daniel Johnson to make an opening statement, I will mention a visit that I and other members made to the Donaldson Trust earlier this week. During the visit, we were able to see the trust’s campus, meet practitioners and some of the people who the trust supports, and find out more about the approaches that the trust uses to help neurodivergent people to access education, build life skills, develop independence and improve their wellbeing. As part of our visit, we discussed the proposed changes to the law on the use of restraint and seclusion. It was interesting for those of us who were there to hear views on the subject and to hear the team at the trust highlighting the approach that they take, which focuses on wellbeing and de-escalation.

I have written formally to thank the Donaldson Trust on behalf of the committee, and I also place on the record our grateful thanks to everyone we met at Donaldson’s for their help with our visit and for contributing their views on the bill.

Having said that, I invite Daniel Johnson to make an opening statement.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 November 2025

Douglas Ross

On Mr Briggs’s first question, which was about recording and reporting, one submission in response to our call for evidence suggested that the reporting could be done on the next school day. Do you agree that that risks leaving children and families without information over the weekend, if the incident happened on a Friday, or weeks or months if it happened on the final day before the summer holidays, before the schools return for the autumn term?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 November 2025

Douglas Ross

This problem is not an issue of conflict with the UK Government; it is because part of the bill—sections 1 and 2, and section 10—amend the Children (Scotland) Act 1995. You are saying that the UK Government could maybe write off some of the legislation—

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 November 2025

Douglas Ross

That is what I am saying. Your answer seemed to be about the UNCRC in general rather than about this bill, which could be sorted with amendments at stage 2 without any further involvement from the UK Government.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 November 2025

Douglas Ross

No. I am sorry, minister, but the committee has received that evidence, and you said that you have followed our evidence. If I was in your shoes, I would have thought that this was clearly an area that I was going to be challenged on. You cannot come here and say that you will now look into it. I would really like to know now why your engagement, in COSLA’s eyes, has been so poor with regard to a bill on which I would have expected it to be working hand in glove with you.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 November 2025

Douglas Ross

Sorry—I am lost now. How can you say that the ministerial code prevents you from doing something before the bill is presented to Parliament but, in the same answer, also say that you engaged widely before it was introduced to Parliament?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 November 2025

Douglas Ross

Okay.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 November 2025

Douglas Ross

So, minister, you have seen it, but your official has not.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 November 2025

Douglas Ross

I will bring in Pam Duncan-Glancy.

10:15  

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 November 2025

Douglas Ross

But do you accept that you are not answering those challenges? You have told the committee that the consultation closed less than a month ago, so you do not have that information for us. I accept that, but you could have had that information. Was there a blockage? Was there something that meant that you, as the minister, knowing what you were putting in the bill before it was introduced to Parliament, could not have consulted? Was there a legal problem? Was there a problem with officials?