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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 22 October 2025
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Displaying 2633 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Douglas Ross

I know—it definitely wasn’t directed at me.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Douglas Ross

I would like to come in before you move on to other points.

Ms O’Brien, is your concern at such a level that, should the Government not accept what has been said in various responses about the need for compliance with the UNCRC to be incorporated in stand-alone parts of the legislation, you would be unable to support the bill as a whole? Are your concerns so significant that, if people do not have that right of appeal through the UNCRC, support for the bill overall could be under threat?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Douglas Ross

Thank you all very much. That concludes today’s evidence session on the bill. I am grateful for your time, insight and contributions to this important part of parliamentary scrutiny.

The committee will now move into private session to consider its final agenda item.

12:53 Meeting continued in private until 13:12.  

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Douglas Ross

We move to questions from Ross Greer.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Douglas Ross

I welcome our second panel of witnesses: Lynne O'Brien, chief officer for children and families at Aberlour; Duncan Dunlop; Natalie Williams, head of policy and campaigns at the Fostering Network; and Jo Derrick, chief executive officer of the Scottish Throughcare and Aftercare Forum. I thank them all for their time today and for their submissions.

I began with a very open question to the first panel and it took half an hour to get through that, so I will try to be a bit tighter with my questions. Although there are positives in your submissions, I am really keen to hear about where you think the bill needs to be improved and developed and about what is missing, and I know that other members will also come to that. If you want to talk about the positives, please do so, but the committee really has to scrutinise where the bill can be improved.

Ms Derrick, I will start with you. Are there any areas where the bill could be improved that you would like to focus on?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Douglas Ross

Before I turn to Mr Dunlop, I can say that it is useful to get that overview and that other committee members will delve further into those issues.

We heard from some of last week’s witnesses that they felt that there had been lack of engagement in advance of the bill being published, although there was more engagement after that. Do you have similar concerns? Could some of those issues have been addressed if there had been improved engagement between Scottish Government ministers or civil servants and all of you, or have you been satisfied with the engagement that you have had on the bill?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Douglas Ross

All the political parties have signed up to the Promise and are supportive of it. You mention in your evidence that it is 3,256 days since Nicola Sturgeon made that commitment and got cross-party support. Why do you feel that we are at the stage that we are at now, and that the bill that has been produced by the Scottish Government lacks any of the ambition that you would expect? There is political will, and that is surely the biggest thing that the Government needs behind it. It has the political will and consensus across the Parliament. Why has it not gone further through the bill?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Douglas Ross

Hearing you talk about love suggests that there is a different side to you that I have not seen before, Mr Adam. [Laughter.]

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Douglas Ross

I accept that. That is a legal question, which we will definitely put to the minister.

The minister has already taken a decision to frame the bill in such a way that there are elements that are outwith the UNCRC, because it refers back to the 1995 act. If that is not rectified, would that be a significant enough concern for you to say, “We shouldn’t support this bill”?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

Thank you. Given that we are on the topic of hearings, I will delve a little further into that with you, Sheriff Mackie. Your working group recommended that the obligation on a child to attend hearings should be replaced with a presumption that they will attend. The bill removes the obligation but does not replace it with such a presumption. What do you think of that and what concerns do you have about it? Should there be a difference in the types of hearings at which there should be either an obligation or a presumption on a child to attend?