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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 11 November 2025
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Displaying 2871 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Douglas Ross

My question was about the timing of the instrument that is in front of the committee today. Given that I think that you are accepting that the bill will have to be heavily amended—whether you believe that that is because the bill is not good enough or because, in a Parliament of minorities, you will have to accept that—and given that there will be changes to the bill before it is passed at stage 3, if it is successful, why is the order coming forward now? I know that there is precedent for taking things forward after stage 1, but has that been the case where there has been so much criticism of a bill at stage 1?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Douglas Ross

We are being asked to start the process now to have things in place for day 1 if the Education (Scotland) Bill is passed. If the bill does not pass—given that legitimate concerns have been raised at stage 1 and we do not know what amendments will or will not be accepted at stage 2, or what the ultimate outcome will be at stage 3—I am querying what would happen if appointments have been made to a body that does not exist.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Douglas Ross

You cannot provide that assurance. You simply cannot do that and neither can the cabinet secretary or the Government, because we have been tasked by the Parliament with scrutinising the bill and making amendments that will not be considered or voted on until April. I therefore find it very difficult to see why and how we can support the instrument today, given the acceptance that I think we have had from the cabinet secretary and from you as officials that things could change significantly at stages 2 and 3.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Douglas Ross

In fairness, I did allude to that earlier. My point—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Douglas Ross

They would usually come from a wide range of organisations and backgrounds. Cabinet secretary, do you want to come back in?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Douglas Ross

It is also a real inherent risk that the Government will be aware of. I have already asked a couple of times what the Government’s contingency plan is if the draft order is not passed today because of members’ concerns—not their views on the bill itself or on qualifications Scotland, but their concerns about not being able to influence the bill before stage 2.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Douglas Ross

Mr Brown.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Douglas Ross

Mr Brown.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Douglas Ross

Can we switch off Mr Brown’s microphone?

Mr Brown, I was just going to clarify that, at no point—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Douglas Ross

Mr Brown, I will suspend the meeting if you cannot control yourself. [Interruption.] Mr Brown, are you challenging the chair? [Interruption.] Mr Brown, I am trying to clarify the point. [Interruption.] You have suggested that the convener was saying something on behalf of the committee. Like you, I am a member of the committee, in which I can ask the cabinet secretary questions and get responses. We have a decision to make on the order, which the committee will take. I cannot influence that in any way. We will either agree or disagree on the motion that the cabinet secretary will shortly be invited to move. That is all that is happening at the moment, and we are scrutinising the proposal.

You cannot, in all fairness, say that I am suggesting something when there is a process that is laid out in front of me that we will go through to allow all members to ask their questions and have them answered, and then make a determination on the order in front of us. If you can continue on those grounds, I am happy to go back to you, Mr Brown.