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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 21 October 2025
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Displaying 2633 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Douglas Ross

[Inaudible]—a couple of weeks ago, Mr Adam.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Douglas Ross

Good morning and welcome to the 27th meeting in 2025 of the Education, Children and Young People Committee. The first item on our agenda is evidence on the Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill, and we are hearing from two panels.

For our first panel, I am pleased to welcome Dr Simon Webster, head of research and policy at Enable; Kate Sanger, family carer and co-creator of the communication passport; and Suzi Martin, who joins us remotely and is external affairs manager at the National Autistic Society. I thank you all for joining us.

Ms Sanger, I will start with you. Beth Morrison has submitted written evidence and she has been behind the campaign for coming up to 15 years. We very much recognise what her son Calum has been through; the family is on a trip to Disneyland and we would all concur that it is important that Calum and the family get time away. Beth puts a lot of onus on you, in her place, to adequately articulate the calls for these changes. Could you start by explaining your background in relation to your daughter Laura and why the campaign is so important to you, Beth and many other campaigners?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Douglas Ross

I have a final question. We have spoken a lot today about restraint. Do you want to put on record anything in relation to the seclusion element of the bill? I am thinking about any aspect of current practice or what the bill is looking to do around seclusion in particular, and your hopes for the future with regard to that area.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Douglas Ross

Given what you said about consistency and what more you have been doing, it struck me from your evidence that there are a couple of examples where you do not take a position. I would have thought that the Children and Young People’s Commissioner Scotland would have a position on the definition of “restraint” or “seclusion”, and on whether all incidents of restraint and seclusion in schools should be recorded, collated and reported to the Parliament annually.

Given that you are the voice for children and young people and you have an important role in informing the Government and the Parliament, why would you not take a position on those important aspects of the bill?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Douglas Ross

I am speaking personally here: do you understand why some politicians and maybe the public would think that the Children and Young People’s Commissioner Scotland would have an idea of a definition of “restraint” and “seclusion”?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Douglas Ross

So it almost becomes the norm.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Douglas Ross

Particularly when we have examples of families who clearly know that something has happened but do not know what it is.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Douglas Ross

Mr Higgins?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Douglas Ross

I know that we will delve into those issues further, so I will move on to other members. First, I call Jackie Dunbar.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Douglas Ross

My point moves us slightly away from the bill, but it relates to Paul McLennan’s question about the UNCRC.

We are scrutinising a Government bill that has similar problems. These questions are probably best addressed to Nicola Killean. Should there be better guidance? Numerous pieces of legislation are now coming forward that are all potentially becoming unstuck for the same reason. I think that your colleague who spoke to us a couple of weeks ago said that things were the same for the Housing (Scotland) Bill, which is now going through stage 3. There is also a member’s bill, which is being supported by the non-Government bills unit, and a Government-supported bill on the Promise. Why do we have to make corrections to bills later on in the process? Why is that not sorted out to begin with?