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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 9 November 2025
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Displaying 2871 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Douglas Ross

Is the success of graduate apprenticeships not a compelling enough reason to override the moratorium?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Douglas Ross

I am sorry, Mr Boyle, but you are appearing before a parliamentary committee whose job it is to scrutinise the bill. This is our first evidence session on the bill. You prepare for these sessions. You said earlier that you were the interim chief executive of the Scottish Funding Council; I presume that people in that organisation told you that you would be asked questions about this, that and the other, and that one of them would be about the cost of the bill—that is, how much it will cost, if the bill is put into law, to transfer people across from SDS and for the SFC to take on the responsibilities in question. As a representative of the Scottish Funding Council, which is an agency of the Scottish Government, are you saying that you have no clue whatsoever of the cost of the proposed legislation, if it is passed?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Douglas Ross

But you know that SDS has done that work, because it is saying that the cost will be £30 million. You know that.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Douglas Ross

Amendment 320, in the name of Pam Duncan-Glancy, is grouped with amendments 344 and 353.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Douglas Ross

I call Pam Duncan-Glancy to wind up and to press or withdraw amendment 320.

Amendment 320, by agreement, withdrawn.

Amendment 321 not moved.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Douglas Ross

Well, you do, because you have spent a £10 million underspend on one university just this year. This is not hypothetical—it is exactly what the Funding Council has done in the past couple of months.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Douglas Ross

So it could happen.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Douglas Ross

No. This was funding that the SFC had not spent—that is what we were told when we had the SFC’s director of finance in front of us. We were told that it was a general underspend that would have been returned to the Scottish Government. What if there is a general underspend in the apprenticeship budget and there is another call for £10 million for universities, as we have just had for Dundee? Are you saying that, even if you have not spent all your money on apprenticeships, you will not provide that money to struggling universities or colleges?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Douglas Ross

I am grateful to Ross Greer for making those points and for his support of the points that I have made. That crystallises my view that something is required in the bill. I am interested to hear the cabinet secretary’s response and the further discussions that we will have.

A point that I put to the former chief executive of the SQA is that, if the body was so sure of its internal investigation, it would have had no fear or concern about having an independent review. If the SQA is happy with its procedures and with everything that it is doing and believes that it is effective and functioning properly, it should not be concerned about an independent regulator being put in place, because such a regulator would have nothing to investigate if everything is fine. I hope that that is a helpful discussion for us to have.

There is a deficiency in this area in the current set-up, which I would not like to see being replicated in the new body. With the bill, we have a unique and fairly rare—I realise that something cannot be both unique and fairly rare—opportunity to change the education structures in Scotland. In considering the creation of the new qualifications Scotland body, we have an ideal opportunity to debate the issue, which is what I am seeking to do with the amendments in my name.

I move amendment 297.

19:30  

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Douglas Ross

The result of the division is: For 9, Against 0, Abstentions 1.

Amendment 17 agreed to

Section 25, as amended, agreed to.

After section 25

Amendment 73 moved—[Jenny Gilruth]—and agreed to.

Amendments 287 to 289 not moved.