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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 8 November 2025
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Displaying 2871 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Douglas Ross

It is interesting that you raise the OECD report, which I have seen. You have had meetings at ministerial level and, I presume, official level. In those meetings, have you asked why some of that report’s conclusions and deliberations have not been included in the bill?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Douglas Ross

Another question that I put to the previous panel was whether that should have been done before now. I have heard their answers, and I accept them. Of course, we can always look back with the benefit of hindsight, but were there insurmountable blockages before that prevented the achievement of what the bill seeks to do now, or, given what you have said, Mr Boyle, about the complexities and other issues, is there a good reason why we are only doing this now, in 2025?

I think that, from what you have said so far, this is fairly straightforward. Mr Yeates does not agree with that, and certainly his board does not agree with that. Why are we looking at this now when we did not in the past?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Douglas Ross

I was going to ask about that later. There are a number of questions about financing and transfer of staff and suchlike, so we will come back to that.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Douglas Ross

I welcome our second panel of witnesses today on the Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill. We have Martin Boyle, chief operating officer at the Scottish Funding Council; Damien Yeates, chief executive of Skills Development Scotland; and Catherine Topley, chief executive of SAAS. Thank you for your time.

We will go straight to questions. I am not sure whether you were all here for the earlier session but, in answer to my first question, the witnesses told me that there is not a problem, but they would answer the question anyway. I will stick with the word “problem”, because I do not believe that, in the final year of a parliamentary session, a Government would be dealing with an issue if it did not think that there was a problem to solve. What problem does the bill seek to solve? Does it solve that problem?

I will go to you, Mr Yeates, just because you are looking at me.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Douglas Ross

Yes.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Douglas Ross

Is this bill the answer to that issue?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Douglas Ross

In fairness, that is why I asked the question. It is useful that you have told us that it is not the case that there will not be a focus on apprenticeships—that is now on the record, and it will be in the Official Report—but given that you know that people are worried about the issue, what substantial evidence can you provide as an example of why people should not worry about that? How can you confirm to people that the move from SDS to the SFC will not result in any dilution in the focus on apprenticeships?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Douglas Ross

I am sorry, Mr Boyle, but getting a report in September that was due in January is not giving the committee the right information at the right time.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Douglas Ross

They are now signed off.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Douglas Ross

I am sorry—you gave an example of an area in which you could do something in spite of the moratorium.