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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 7 February 2026
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Displaying 3569 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

Do you recall the evidence that you gave to this committee on 11 June?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

These are Liz Smith’s words:

“Can I get it on the record that, at the same meeting, the Scottish Government will be doing the same”,

that being “bringing forward … proposed amendments.”

I can read you the whole quotation. Let us go back to what Liz Smith said:

“I will be bringing forward some proposed amendments. Can I get it on the record that, at the same meeting, the Scottish Government will be doing the same thing and proposing amendments, as the committee has requested?”—[Official Report, Education, Children and Young People Committee, 11 June 2025; c 68.]

Your response was one word: “Absolutely.”

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

The committee was looking for those amendments, and we got your reassurance in June that you were going to bring forward proposed amendments. There is no ambiguity at all in the wording. It is very clear.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

You have, and I welcome that.

At any point after that meeting, did your officials tell you that perhaps the evidence that you gave to the committee was incorrect?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

As the minister responsible, you gave commitments to this committee to further progress this, and you will have to make a statement of some kind on whether a financial resolution should be agreed or not. Have you not yet been asked to present your findings and position to Cabinet?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

Okay. Ms McKerron?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

No. I am sorry, but this is quite an important question. We have maybe two Cabinet meetings left before 26 September. You could even take a 50:50 punt and guess which one it might be, but you are suggesting that, at the moment, there is no knowledge within your department of when the Cabinet is going to be asked to discuss the matter. My point is going to be to ask what discussions on that there have been at the Cabinet so far.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

I bring in Liz Smith.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

The bill will fall if you do nothing before—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

The issues with COSLA and the teacher unions are all clear in our stage 1 report, which is very balanced. They were highlighted in evidence and in the report, and the committee approved the general principles of the bill at stage 1, as did the Parliament.

All the considerations that you have just articulated to Jackie Dunbar are not considerations for your determination on the financial resolution. I presume that they were for whether you as an individual and the Government supported the bill at stage 1. They were not significant enough to make you vote against the bill at stage 1—you simply abstained. Surely, therefore, those issues have already been debated and discussed, and the will of the Parliament is that we should scrutinise the bill further at stages 2 and 3. Those issues are not a significant part of the financial resolution. We have done the bit about COSLA and the unions, it is in the stage 1 report and there have been two votes on it.