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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 6 February 2026
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Displaying 3569 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

Do you know when, but you cannot tell the committee, or do you not know when?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

I think that you can. I think that being called before a committee gives you the opportunity to do that, and that is why members are asking these questions.

If we are not going to get an answer, other members will want to come in. Before they do so, I will ask briefly about the concerns that were raised last night about the undemocratic nature of the potential decision not to lodge a financial resolution. Do you understand the gravity of the decision that you would be taking not to lodge a financial resolution? It would be the first time in the history of devolution that the Government has sought to strike down a bill using that procedure, rather than listening to the will of Parliament, which overwhelmingly supported the bill at stage 1.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

I know, but it will effectively be done.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

So it cannot inform your decision. You will not have those numbers.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

But nothing in the bill stops that. The bill provides a universal opportunity for people to be given the chance to go on these trips, but there is no mandatory obligation for them to go. I have to say, Mr Adam, that the bill is about a lot more than zip wires and canoeing. [Interruption.] Well, you might find that funny. I find that—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

Well, I do not want it to be an issue—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

I want to go back to the point about unanswered questions and queries. You are right that you stipulated those questions when you appeared before us in our stage 1 proceedings and in the stage 1 debate, but they were not of significant enough concern to you at that time to vote against the bill.

What Pam Duncan-Glancy just said is surely the crux of the issue. You could lodge a financial resolution for the bill in the knowledge that we may never spend a single penny of that financial resolution because the bill does not get satisfactorily amended at stage 2 or stage 3. Is not the best approach to give Parliament the opportunity to try to hone the bill into something that we can get majority support for and, therefore, lodge the financial resolution with the caveat that the Government, if it has enough support from other parties, can vote it down at stage 3 if the amendments at stage 2 do not suffice?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

Because any figure is too much?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

Of course it would be, but I think that a request for a minister to give a statement will often be agreed to by the bureau.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Douglas Ross

Welcome back. The next item of business is evidence, over two panels, on the Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill. I welcome our first panel. Sheriff David Mackie is chairperson of the hearings system working group, Fiona Duncan is independent strategic adviser to The Promise Scotland, and Fraser McKinlay is chief executive at The Promise Scotland. Thank you very much for joining us today. I apologise for our lateness in getting to you—I know that you sat through the previous session.

I will kick off the questions, which I will direct to Sheriff Mackie first of all. There are positive points in your submission on the bill, but there are also some criticisms—that is a theme throughout the submissions. Your criticisms are quite stark. You speak about the bill lacking ambition. You state:

“Some … provisions seem unnecessarily complex to the point of being, at times, unintelligible and inaccessible to anyone who is not a lawyer.”

You also speak about the bill being a “Lost opportunity”.

You can talk about some of the positives if you want to, but I particularly want to look at what we as a committee need to scrutinise and what deficiencies you see in the bill.