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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 5 November 2025
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Displaying 2754 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Douglas Ross

Are you content with the service that is provided through those independent providers?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Douglas Ross

It does not sound as though we have very happy witnesses in front of us. We will delve more into the issues as we go along but, first, I want to look at how we got here. In that regard, I particularly want to hear from Ms Jackson and Mr Lewis, because of the views expressed in their submissions and their responses to my question.

I do not want to paraphrase you, Mr Lewis, but it sounds as though you are deeply disappointed by the lack of engagement with the Scottish Government, given that this is a change that will affect your members and staff working for those organisations. Is that correct?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Douglas Ross

I might just go to Jackie Dunbar, who has some questions, and then we will come back to you, Mr Davenport.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Douglas Ross

Thank you all for your evidence, the time that you have spent with the committee and the answers that you have given to our questions. We have another panel after you, and we have the minister next week. Then we will conclude our consideration with a report on stage 1 of the bill. Thank you for your input.

I suspend the meeting for 15 minutes.

10:55 Meeting suspended.  

11:10 On resuming—  

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Douglas Ross

Welcome back. We will now hear evidence from our second panel on the Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill. I welcome Vikki Manson, deputy head of policy in Scotland for the Federation of Small Businesses; Paul Campbell, general manager at Scottish Water and the Scottish Apprenticeship Advisory Board employer engagement group chair, representing SAAB; and Carolyn Currie, chief executive of Women’s Enterprise Scotland. Thank you all for joining us today.

I will start with the question that I have asked consistently throughout our evidence taking. What problem exists that the bill seeks to address, and is the bill the answer? Vikki Manson, we will start with you.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Douglas Ross

Mr Campbell, you say in your written evidence that your concern is that

“the potential benefits of reform will not be delivered, involve significant costs, and introduce risks that will take many years to mitigate, without cost savings or financial return.”

To follow up a question that Mr Mason asked of the previous panel, do you think that the cost of the proposed reform is too much and that we should scrap the idea because it would be disruptive, would not do what you would like it to do and could be extremely expensive?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Douglas Ross

Mr Campbell, you say in your written submission:

“SAAB is unapologetically ambitious for apprenticeships”.

Given the risks that you have highlighted, are you concerned that the bill could harm your ambitions for apprenticeships?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Douglas Ross

I have one final question. In the previous evidence session, we heard quite a lot about a lack of consultation and engagement with the Government. As important players in this field, how much engagement—if any—have you had with the Government on the bill?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Douglas Ross

Ms Manson, I know that the FSB has a lot of engagement with the Scottish Government, but has there been engagement specifically on the bill?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Douglas Ross

In our previous evidence session, we heard quite a bit about private or independent providers versus colleges. Can you tell us a bit about your interaction with private providers, as businesses and business organisations, and about how it compares with your interaction with colleges that provide apprenticeships?