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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 19 December 2025
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Displaying 3160 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Douglas Ross

How about you, Dr McGeorge?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Douglas Ross

Good. I wanted to get that on the record.

On the covenant, how can two very senior individuals—one is the director of finance and one about whom the Gillies report says

“was at the centre of”

all

“the financial management of the University”—

not know that a breach is reportable to the Funding Council?

I will go to you first, Dr McGeorge.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Douglas Ross

You are at the centre of financial management at the university. You are not only the chief operating officer but the company secretary. You are legally bound to alert the institution to such issues. Is it not only an appalling failure but almost a criminal failure that you were negligent in that way?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Douglas Ross

Oh—okay. How can you not know something like that and not be negligent?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Douglas Ross

Okay. If we believe you that you did not know, that is still a serious incident on your watch. At that point, there was still some dubiety as to whether a breach had occurred—we will come on to Mr. Fotheringham and his discussions with the bank. Given that you both seem totally unprepared for that eventuality, would you not then research what happens if a university or an organisation breaches a covenant? Did you not do that?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Douglas Ross

Someone who has accepted, on the record, that they did not know anything about matter then has it handed to them as an issue. As company secretary and chief operating officer, you did not think, “Looking at what might be required here deserves a bit of my time.” That is gross incompetence.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Douglas Ross

Dr McGeorge, the report says that you were

“at the centre of many parts of the financial management of the University”,

and, again, you are named as one of the individuals who

“appeared to operate in isolation of facts”.

Did you do so?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Douglas Ross

Why make the change to stop them coming if you believed that they were not relevant to those meetings when, previously, they came to all of them, had oversight of everything that the court was discussing and could contribute? There were considerable concerns from Professor Grubb and others that he was excluded. We asked your successor—the interim chair of the court—and she made it very clear that it was your decision. Why did you take that decision? What was the impetus for that change? It clearly diminished the amount of scrutiny at court where you were the chair.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Douglas Ross

Good morning and welcome to the 22nd meeting in 2025 of the Education, Children and Young People Committee. Our first agenda item is an evidence session on the financial situation at the University of Dundee.

We will take evidence from former members of staff at the university. I welcome to the meeting Peter Fotheringham, former director of finance; Dr Jim McGeorge, former chief operating officer; and Amanda Millar, former chair of the university court. Thank you all for joining us. We will go straight to questions.

I will start by asking you all about your individual and collective responsibilities in the situation, which is now very public, that the University of Dundee got itself into due to failures in leadership and chronic mismanagement. What do you say to the students and staff who were so badly let down and failed by you, individually and collectively?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Douglas Ross

You were the chief operating officer and company secretary, so everything was available to you. There was nothing of which you would not have been aware.