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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 19 June 2025
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Displaying 1189 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Financial Memorandum for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Liz Smith

Sorry, Mr Sweeney, it is about national data, but that national data can only be forthcoming if we are able to assess what each of the 32 local authorities is doing. They are the ones that are delivering the policy, alongside people in the independent sector. Therefore, for us to analyse what is a national policy, it is essential that that data is both clear and available. With respect, it would be very helpful if you could provide the committee with a little bit more information—if you cannot do it this morning, you could provide it at another time—to allow us to see with considerable clarity where the data on policy delivery is so that we can analyse it better. Thank you for your assistance so far.

Mr Robertson, can I ask one question about the Borders policy? You said in an earlier answer that Scottish Borders Council has been taking time with the policy to ensure that providers are able to survive and therefore deliver it. Could you say a little bit more about what action you have been taking to ensure that they survive?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Financial Memorandum for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Liz Smith

Good morning. I will quote from the Audit Scotland report “Early learning and childcare: Follow-up”, which was published in 2020. Key message 5 of the report says that a lot of work is being undertaken

“to capture important baseline information. However, challenges to the evaluation process remain.”

Could you explain what data local authorities are using, particularly when it comes to assessing uptake? What data are they using to assess the reasons why quite a number of children—particularly two-year-olds—are not taking up the offer of a place?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Financial Memorandum for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Liz Smith

Thank you for that answer. I think that it is important that we have good-quality data, which Audit Scotland was obviously requesting.

You suggested earlier that one reason for changes in uptake might be the pandemic, which is possibly true, and you have just suggested that it could be to do with stigma, although I am not sure that that would follow the logic in relation to three to five-year-olds; nonetheless, that is possible, too.

Is it not the case, however, that there could be quite a lot of data that suggests that one of the reasons for weaker uptake is the pressure on staffing, which is something else that Audit Scotland flagged up in 2020? There is a lot of anecdotal evidence that staffing is particularly difficult. You know of some reasons, but is it not important that we try to understand all the reasons for there being such pressure?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Financial Memorandum for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Liz Smith

Did they flag up problems?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Financial Memorandum for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Liz Smith

Thank you. That is helpful. Finally, was there any discussion about the availability of staff to deliver in the centres?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Financial Memorandum for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Liz Smith

How far down the road are you in finding the necessary data? From our perspective—from the Parliament’s perspective—when we are scrutinising a very important piece of legislation that has cross-party support, it is absolutely essential that the data that underpins that scrutiny is well crafted and very clear. It strikes me that, in this case, there is no clarity over the way in which data is being either collected or assessed. Are you offering the committee the opinion that a lot more has to be done to get accurate data?

10:15  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Financial Memorandum for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Liz Smith

Is that a staffing issue or a resource issue in terms of capital provision?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Financial Memorandum for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Liz Smith

In other words, there is a problem with engagement with some local authorities whereas other local authorities are much better at engaging with the sector—is that correct?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Financial Memorandum for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Liz Smith

Could you evidence that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Financial Memorandum for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Liz Smith

Thank you all very much for your evidence, both oral and written. Some of your comments are quite concerning, and they tie in exactly with some of the anecdotal evidence I am receiving in my constituency region of Mid Scotland and Fife.

I am interested in what Ms Brumpton and Mr McAlister said about some local authorities understanding the problems that you have cited and working better with your sectors. Why do you think that those local authorities are better able to understand the issues that you are raising? Perhaps conversely, what is it about other local authorities that means they are not engaging so well and do not feel able to give you the benefit of being able to sort the policy?