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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 5 November 2025
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Displaying 1294 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 20 June 2023

Liz Smith

I have two short questions to finish. First, do you have a timescale for those new discussions between local and national Government? Secondly, do they include discussion of your respective perspectives on the financial commitments that will be involved?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Medium-term Financial Strategy, Economic and Fiscal Forecasts and Policy Prospectus

Meeting date: 13 June 2023

Liz Smith

Good morning. I welcome the acknowledgement of the serious fiscal situation that the Scottish Government faces. It was good to hear that from you.

In your statement to Parliament on the medium-term financial strategy, you said that you committed to the Scottish economy being on a sustainable trajectory by 2026 and you made no bones about the fact that tough decisions would have to be made. I want to ask about that. All the forecasters and the Scottish Government statistics predict considerable increases in health, social care and social security spending over the next five years. I think that I am right in saying that, for social security alone, there will be an increase from around £5.3 billion to £7.8 billion.

Those policy areas all tie in with your comments about addressing poverty and the needs of the most vulnerable. If that spending is going to be so high, where will you be able to make the tough decisions that will help the fiscal situation?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Medium-term Financial Strategy, Economic and Fiscal Forecasts and Policy Prospectus

Meeting date: 13 June 2023

Liz Smith

There will definitely have to be a new financial memorandum. I reiterate that four committees of Parliament are not happy with the current plan, which is why I asked the question.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Medium-term Financial Strategy, Economic and Fiscal Forecasts and Policy Prospectus

Meeting date: 13 June 2023

Liz Smith

Notwithstanding that, is it not the case that the overall tax revenues are nothing like what we need to be able to take in to address some of the funding gap? That is the problem, and today’s statistics about unemployment, employment and economic inactivity were pretty stark about the numbers of people who are not actually in work at all, which means a loss of potential revenue. Then we have the issue with north-east jobs, which are some of the better-paid ones with people paying slightly higher tax rates. That money is not coming to the Scottish Government, so there is a pretty serious situation where the tax revenue that the Scottish Government is getting just now is nothing like what is required to deliver extra money for its public expenditure.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Medium-term Financial Strategy, Economic and Fiscal Forecasts and Policy Prospectus

Meeting date: 13 June 2023

Liz Smith

One final question, cabinet secretary: what would you do to make Scotland more competitive in terms of tax in comparison with the rest of the UK?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Medium-term Financial Strategy, Economic and Fiscal Forecasts and Policy Prospectus

Meeting date: 13 June 2023

Liz Smith

The committee is interested in the issue on two fronts. First, as you know, we have issues with the initial financial memorandum to the National Care Service (Scotland) Bill, the lower estimate for the cost of which was £1.3 billion, which is a considerable amount of money in relation to some of the things that we are discussing.

Given that so many stakeholders gave evidence in committee that showed that the particular national care service programme that the Scottish Government has put forward is not desperately popular—we have four committee reports that demonstrate that—will the Scottish Government consider realigning some of that money to help with other expenditure? I am asking for confirmation that that will be reviewed.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Medium-term Financial Strategy, Economic and Fiscal Forecasts and Policy Prospectus

Meeting date: 13 June 2023

Liz Smith

Thank you for that. I will come to the point about widening the tax base in a moment, but I want to go back to the issue of projected increases in health, social care and social security spending. You said that you are looking at 500 different programmes to see where potential savings might be made. Does that include the national care service?

10:00  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Medium-term Financial Strategy, Economic and Fiscal Forecasts and Policy Prospectus

Meeting date: 13 June 2023

Liz Smith

Secondly, I turn to the tax issue. You have made no apology for a progressive tax agenda, but is it not the case, cabinet secretary, that the current structures are not yielding the increase in revenues that we need? In the 2020-21 budget, the revenues were only £96 million more than the amount that was subtracted from the block grant—that figure came from the Institute for Fiscal Studies, and the Scottish Government came out with the same statistic. What do you propose to do to ensure that the tax base is not only wider than it is now but also that the revenues that we get from tax overall increase? That is a major part of the equation that you described in your opening statement.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Economic and Fiscal Forecasts and Medium-term Financial Strategy

Meeting date: 6 June 2023

Liz Smith

Good morning. My questioning will focus on two areas. The first is about the frustration that I think we all feel about the different timings of the various forecasts that underpin strategies—whether it be those for the medium-term financial strategy or any other set of forecasts—and how the OBR and the SFC forecasts relate to the different timings in the budget cycle. That has an impact on the projections that can be made, given the data at that time. Is there scope to bring the timings of the forecasts slightly closer together so as to make things easier? I am sure that the OBR and the SFC would welcome that as well.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Economic and Fiscal Forecasts and Medium-term Financial Strategy

Meeting date: 6 June 2023

Liz Smith

On the discussions about the forthcoming new fiscal framework, which will replace the 2016 version, are you aware of any dialogue about the forecasting element?