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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 16 June 2025
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Displaying 1189 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Liz Smith

Okay. So, there is the potential for some increase.

I have one final question. In an answer to Michael Marra, you said that you think that the new bill is, in the main, fairly settled. What evidence do you have for that?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Financial Considerations When Leaving an Abusive Relationship

Meeting date: 22 May 2025

Liz Smith

To make that decision, we also need the right information.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Financial Considerations When Leaving an Abusive Relationship

Meeting date: 22 May 2025

Liz Smith

Yes. The Scottish Legal Aid Board made the point that it has powers to use discretion. In its evidence to the committee, it commented that that fact is not necessarily very well known, but it also said that, in order for it to be able to use that discretion effectively—to ensure that people are getting the help that they need—it needs to know an awful lot more information about the claimant. Therefore, some of the questioning might be a bit more intrusive, because it has to deal with sensitive issues to ensure that people get that help, but, at the same time, one of the founding principles of the Scottish Government’s social security system is to be less intrusive. Could you comment on that?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Financial Considerations When Leaving an Abusive Relationship

Meeting date: 22 May 2025

Liz Smith

We also heard from the Scottish Legal Aid Board that, in some instances, there are barriers for people who are applying for civil court orders. Does the Scottish Government have a view on supporting automatic civil legal aid for that kind of situation?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Financial Considerations When Leaving an Abusive Relationship

Meeting date: 22 May 2025

Liz Smith

The whole point is to ensure that we get the right information from the claimant. In circumstances where the abuser has been causing difficulties, we need that information as well. That is the conundrum about how the Government approaches its demands of the social security system and whether the agencies that work on that basis are asking the right questions. That is what it is all about.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Financial Considerations When Leaving an Abusive Relationship

Meeting date: 22 May 2025

Liz Smith

Minister, in your opening remarks, you said that the Scottish Government has built a very different social security system, one that the Government cites as being much less adversarial and intrusive and much more compassionate. However, we heard from the Scottish Legal Aid Board that, when it comes to assessing people’s financial eligibility for help, particularly if it has to use discretion, it needs quite a lot more information than might otherwise be the case. That is a bit of a paradox, so can the Scottish Government comment on that?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Financial Considerations When Leaving an Abusive Relationship

Meeting date: 22 May 2025

Liz Smith

Minister, I understand all that, and it is a very sensitive area, for obvious reasons. However, the Scottish Legal Aid Board is arguing that, in order to help somebody effectively—to ensure that it gets the right information in order to decide whether it should use its discretion with regard to certain payments—it sometimes has to ask pretty difficult questions, but the Scottish Government has built a social security system that shies away from being too intrusive and too adversarial. Is that not a problem with regard to addressing some of the issues to help people who very genuinely need support?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Financial Considerations When Leaving an Abusive Relationship

Meeting date: 22 May 2025

Liz Smith

Whether we are talking about south or north of the border, to ensure that social security is effective, in the context of the whole system, we have to be compassionate and understanding about those who are genuinely in need, and that approach has been the overall intention of the Scottish Government. The problem is that, if you become more compassionate, less adversarial and less intrusive, as the Scottish Legal Aid board was arguing, you might miss out on some essential information that the individual might not give you for whatever reason. That is quite a substantial problem, because these are the most vulnerable people whom we are trying to support. If they do not provide the information because it is not being asked for, there is a difficulty.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Financial Considerations When Leaving an Abusive Relationship

Meeting date: 22 May 2025

Liz Smith

Again, it was a point that came up from the Scottish Legal Aid Board’s evidence. The whole basis for that approach is to make things as easy as possible and ensure that those who are most in need get the support and benefits that they require. At the moment, there seems to be a grey area—let us call it that—as to how we go about that. That has come right through the evidence that we have taken, and it is about ensuring not just that the Scottish Government is aware of all that but that, through its various agencies, it can address some of those concerns. The big conundrum is that compassion is all very well, but, if that approach does not drill down on the information that we need, we will not get very far.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 20 May 2025

Liz Smith

Do people demand judge-led public inquiries, because they believe that that person will have the legal authority and standing to get more out of the evidence?