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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 22 June 2025
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Displaying 1200 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Liz Smith

How do you propose to put in front of the committee what the true costs will be? We all accept that no financial memorandum can be 100 per cent accurate, but it will have to be much more accurate than the one with which we were presented before. I do not see how we will be able to get to that situation when engagement is on-going that might produce many more suggestions about how to improve the bill. Do you accept that, as a result of that, it is difficult to get to the cost structures that the committee needs to scrutinise?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Liz Smith

Thank you.

My final point is on one of the difficulties that we had this time last year, which was the strong criticism that we heard of the Scottish Government’s proposals from people on the front line of delivery, including some in council authorities and care services. There was a bit of a contrast between what they were saying and what those who had experienced care were saying. Have you consulted in great depth those who were critical of the proposals, because they felt that the costs had not been fully set out and, indeed, told you that the bill for the whole thing was going to be much more than you had predicted? Do we have some statistics for the figures that COSLA and local government said were a bit of a concern? Has that arithmetic been done?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Liz Smith

Do any of you think that there is any sign that there is slight movement, and that economically inactive people are starting to look for jobs, or is it just a very difficult landscape?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Liz Smith

It is difficult. I also want to ask about high streets, and perhaps Rachel Cook is best placed to answer this question. Obviously, it is of great concern to many of us who represent rural communities that high streets in our smaller towns are decimated. What else can we do to try to reverse that trend?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Liz Smith

That is important, but it is even more important for the costs that go along with those changes to instil confidence in people that the bill will be deliverable. That is the area that concerns the committee, and I suggest that there is still an awful lot of work to be done before the next financial memorandum comes back to the committee to give us a much better idea of the costs, given the divergence of opinion.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Liz Smith

That is the point for this committee. I absolutely understand why co-design could be beneficial—particularly from the point of view of getting the input of many who feel that the existing system is not satisfactory—and I understood it when Kevin Stewart spoke to us, too. My concern is that the process of engagement is still going on, and we know from our previous consideration that, although many on the front line of the service were concerned about the change, lots of others involved in the delivery of the service were also quite critical—in fact, very critical, in a few cases—of what the Scottish Government proposed.

My point is that it is a bit like putting the cart before the horse. If the co-design continues—for good reasons—should we not finish that process before we come back with the detail of the bill and, therefore, the forecast of the costs? Would that not be an easier way of doing it?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Liz Smith

Will you tell us what those themes are?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Liz Smith

That is why I asked that question; John Swinney impressed me with what he said about that. Those are people whose skills we desperately need—as Louise Maclean rightly flagged—and who have a wealth of experience, so trying to ensure that they come back into the workforce is critical. There is a productivity angle as well.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 19 September 2023

Liz Smith

Thank you.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 19 September 2023

Liz Smith

I want to ask about UK tax and global tax debates. In the first instance, there is a huge issue about the UK tax structure being far too complex, having far too many loopholes and not delivering the revenue that it should. People are avoiding tax too much, and there is a big debate about inheritance tax. On the global scene, there are lots of debates about whether we should move towards environmental taxation to stop some of the big multinationals depositing their money in safe havens. Those are all academic debates that take up lots of column space in The Economist, Financial Times, The Spectator, New Statesman and so on. To what extent does a Government in Scotland have to try to second-guess what will happen with those debates, because, technically, they could mean important changes in the future?