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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 11 September 2025
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Displaying 1231 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 28 May 2024

Liz Smith

That is an interesting and very important comment that you have just made.

It all comes down to the question of accountability. Two weeks ago, we took evidence from somebody who said that he had been required to put only one report before a committee. I was very surprised by that; in fact, I found it extraordinary that that was the level of accountability for that particular commissioner. In trying to restructure things and ensuring that we have greater efficiency, we must ensure, too, that there is greater accountability to the Parliament for any job that a commissioner has. It is my view—again, it is a personal one—that we are not doing that very well just now. Some commissioners are not having to go before committees too often to put forward their views and be questioned about them. I wonder whether that is something that the SPCB would agree with.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 28 May 2024

Liz Smith

In your opening remarks, you made it very clear that proposals for new commissioners are largely for commissioners with an advocacy role. A big question is why that has come about. Not all the existing commissioners have a regulatory or a complaints role—or whatever it might be—but most do; they are not generally on the advocacy side of things, with one or two exceptions.

If we are trying to change the structure, we need to ask whether we should be concentrating on that advocacy perspective. Speaking personally, I think that that flags up failures in the delivery of public services. You have talked about people not feeling that their rights are being respected properly, so is that a line of thought that we should be looking at in more depth?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 28 May 2024

Liz Smith

I will set out what I think the main challenge is—namely that, as quite a lot of our witnesses, particularly Professor Page and Dr Elliot last week, have been very intent on making it clear to us, we should be thinking about overhauling the existing commissioner structure completely. However, as Mr Carlaw has rightly said, there is an issue with trying to remove existing commissioners, as it would be quite difficult to do.

Therefore, we have the existing commissioners—plus the commissioner for patient safety, which has already been confirmed in legislation—and we have proposals for new commissioners. Do slightly different arguments need to be made in relation to those existing and proposed roles? Do we need a different focus when it comes to proceeding with demands for new commissioners?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 28 May 2024

Liz Smith

Which raises the question whether we need any of them at all. I will leave that there, though.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 28 May 2024

Liz Smith

Would you make that point on a financial basis, as it might save us money, or because you genuinely think that there is too much overlap?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 28 May 2024

Liz Smith

Does the corporate body have any views on the potential for merging existing commissioner roles? I am sure that some of my colleagues will question you further on that. In general, though, do you think that there are possibilities for merging the roles of some commissioners?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Administration in the Scottish Government

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Liz Smith

That was very helpful, permanent secretary. It is undoubtedly a frustration that we have felt, and I think that we as a committee have put it on the record that we do not appreciate having to come back several times to review something that could have been worked through in a much better way.

I am very conscious of time, convener, so I will leave it there.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Liz Smith

Thank you for your very interesting, thought-provoking responses so far. Has the increasing demand to have commissioners come about because we are failing to deliver the public services that people want? I do not mind who goes first.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Liz Smith

This is an important question for our deliberations. If the demand has come about because certain aspects of public services are failing or there is a gap in delivery, can we do something to improve delivery rather than having another commissioner? That is the real question.

I think that the evidence that we have had so far, which is now quite extensive—we have been scrutinising the topic for something like six weeks—is that the demand for commissioners to deal with an advocacy issue rather than a regulatory matter or something to do with complaints is a result of an issue not getting the attention or the delivery that it needs in order to improve, for example, the lives of vulnerable people, whether that is disabled people, older people or children. I am interested to know if you share that reflection.

12:30  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Liz Smith

Lynda Towers, you mentioned the possibility of a fourth estate, if you like. Do you think that demand for greater integrity has come about because the public trust in Government and in the ability to be effective in delivering public services has been questioned or is perhaps failing?