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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 24 March 2026
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Displaying 1485 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Performance Framework: Ambitions into Action

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

Liz Smith

I will ask about an important dilemma in all this, which has been raised by three sets of witnesses—when we took evidence from Fife Council last week and from the third sector about four weeks ago, and at our workshop in Dundee. All those people are broadly in favour of the national performance framework’s principles, but they said that the best outcomes are those that are owned locally. When local communities come up with ideas and feel that they are making the best progress, that is when they—perhaps led by local government—have ownership of what they are doing.

The dilemma is that, if the best performances can be driven from a local bottom-up scenario, some of the 11 projected outcomes in the national performance framework may get more emphasis in one region compared with another region or in one local authority compared with another local authority, and other outcomes will be lower on the agenda. Dundee City Council gave us the example that it felt that it was making good progress on child poverty but that, as a result, it was not focusing on the other outcomes.

Are some of the best outcomes being driven by local empowerment? If so, does that challenge the need for such prescriptive oversight from national Government of what we are trying to achieve?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Skills Development Scotland

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

Liz Smith

I have two quick questions. You described the outcome agreements between universities or colleges and the Scottish Funding Council. Do graduate apprenticeships feature in those agreements?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Skills Development Scotland

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

Liz Smith

I would be grateful if you could, because it is important that graduate apprenticeships feature in those agreements. In relation to your job, I think that it would be helpful if there could be a more joined-up approach to that, because, like you, I think that graduate apprenticeships are extremely beneficial. I wonder whether we are talking enough about them and giving them enough consideration.

When you speak to people in schools, how much comment do you get about youngsters not necessarily having the breadth of curriculum that would be desirable from the point of view of their going straight into the workplace, rather than doing college and university courses?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Skills Development Scotland

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

Liz Smith

Thank you. I think that there is a disconnect there and we need to do more on that.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Performance Framework: Ambitions into Action

Meeting date: 24 May 2022

Liz Smith

Earlier, Mirren Kelly quite rightly said that what works in Fife might not work in the Borders, that what works in Glasgow might not work in the Highlands and so on. The dilemma that the committee faces as we scrutinise the national performance framework is that there is broad agreement across the board as to what we should be trying to achieve in improving the wellbeing of communities across Scotland, but the measures that will ensure that that happens could be very different in different parts of the country. I am interested to know whether you feel that the structure of the national performance framework allows for that or whether we should have a slight change in approach.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Performance Framework: Ambitions into Action

Meeting date: 24 May 2022

Liz Smith

That begs the question whether a national performance framework is needed.

10:00  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Performance Framework: Ambitions into Action

Meeting date: 24 May 2022

Liz Smith

Good morning. I want to flag up to you some of the evidence that we took when we went out from Parliament to visit two local authorities. At the workshop that I attended, senior local government officials said that everybody is agreed that, in principle, the national performance framework is a good thing, because it focuses minds on what we ought to be doing, and because central Government and local government come together to decide on it.

However, there is a big dilemma at the heart of delivery in practice because, if you make the prescription too state-orientated and too cumbersome, it is difficult for local authorities and other stakeholders to have the freedom to do exactly what you have both said this morning, which is to deliver where you know that things will improve most at local level. Do you agree with the perspective of those senior officials?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Performance Framework: Ambitions into Action

Meeting date: 24 May 2022

Liz Smith

If I follow the logic of that, are you saying that it is beneficial and helpful to somebody like you who makes local decisions on what is best for, say, Fife to have considerable flexibility and autonomy in what you decide to do; to have less ring fencing of money so that you can choose the priorities that you feel will deliver the best outcomes; and not to have anything too prescriptive at national level?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Performance Framework: Ambitions into Action

Meeting date: 24 May 2022

Liz Smith

My final question is for Mirren Kelly. One of the people who gave evidence to us was clear that, when there is good practice in another local authority, they pick up the phone and speak to their counterpart there, then agree to follow their practice because it worked for them. Does COSLA have any way of collecting in all 32 local authorities the data and the delivery improvements that are working? How do you measure what is and what is not working?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Performance Framework: Ambitions into Action

Meeting date: 24 May 2022

Liz Smith

Do you mean on the collection of data?