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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 27 August 2025
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Displaying 2215 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

“National Fraud Initiative in Scotland 2024”

Meeting date: 26 September 2024

Graham Simpson

Okay. I will ask you about something else—the council tax reduction scheme. Before I ask you a specific question about that, do councils generally share information? Do they talk to each other? In Scotland, we now have a large number of councils that charge double council tax on a second home. That relies on people being honest about having a second home. It seems to me that it would be easier to discover that from councils speaking to one another—actually, across the UK. Does that happen?

Public Audit Committee

“National Fraud Initiative in Scotland 2024”

Meeting date: 26 September 2024

Graham Simpson

It has always gone on—there have always been people who use blue badges when they really ought not to. Do the figures suggest that it is rather too easy to get away with that?

Public Audit Committee

“National Fraud Initiative in Scotland 2024”

Meeting date: 26 September 2024

Graham Simpson

That brings me to adult concessionary bus travel, which has the same issue. You are right that, when somebody dies, people have a lot to deal with, and dealing with a blue badge or a bus pass is probably quite far down their list of priorities. However, the report says that 1,075 bus passes have been used after somebody died. That means that someone is using a dead person’s bus pass. That is not the same as just forgetting to tell somebody.

Public Audit Committee

“National Fraud Initiative in Scotland 2024”

Meeting date: 26 September 2024

Graham Simpson

I have to say that that does not sound like very many, given the scale of the exercise.

Public Audit Committee

“National Fraud Initiative in Scotland 2024”

Meeting date: 26 September 2024

Graham Simpson

Before I do so, convener, I would just like to follow up the convener’s line of questioning, which sparked a thought in me. I suppose that it goes back to what I was asking earlier. What is the point of, or—I should say—benefit to a public body of being part of this exercise? What do they get from it?

Public Audit Committee

“National Fraud Initiative in Scotland 2024”

Meeting date: 26 September 2024

Graham Simpson

I am a bit surprised by that, to be honest. I would have thought that with such an exercise, you would know how much it cost and what its value was.

Public Audit Committee

“National Fraud Initiative in Scotland 2024”

Meeting date: 26 September 2024

Graham Simpson

Will the Home Office just not share the information?

Public Audit Committee

“National Fraud Initiative in Scotland 2024”

Meeting date: 26 September 2024

Graham Simpson

It happens to a certain extent, but would second-home ownership be picked up in this exercise?

Public Audit Committee

“National Fraud Initiative in Scotland 2024”

Meeting date: 26 September 2024

Graham Simpson

They would. Okay.

On the council tax reduction scheme—this is quite interesting—case numbers have reduced since 2020-21, but the savings have gone up. Do you know why that would be the case?

10:00  

Public Audit Committee

“National Fraud Initiative in Scotland 2024”

Meeting date: 26 September 2024

Graham Simpson

I will ask about blue badges and concessionary travel, which I think are linked. The blue badge outcomes and case numbers have continued to rise. When we looked at that in 2022, it was suggested to us that that could have been a blip, due to the Covid-19 pandemic. Do you have any idea why the case numbers and the outcomes have continued to rise? We are talking about people who use blue badges when they should not.