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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 15 May 2025
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Displaying 1908 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Graham Simpson

I want to build on Bob Doris’s point. He is not the only one who has a lot of refillable bottles in cupboards. That is just what happens when people collect them. Is there not a danger that, by issuing more of them, we will just add to the landfill problem? At some point, Mr Doris, and others like him, might just have a clear-out and the bottles will end up in the bin. Mr Doris’s points about fashion trends, and youngsters not wanting to use particular bottles even if they are given them, are strong. Do you accept that? Also, have you assessed what the cost of implementing the proposition would be?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Graham Simpson

Would Maurice Golden agree that it is not so much about the colour of the bins—it is about what is recycled and how much the local council is recycling? Would he agree that the colour of someone’s bins is neither here nor there; rather, it is a question of how much can be put in the bins to recycle?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Graham Simpson

Yes, and I bow to your expertise on that. I do not live in a rural area, but I can see that there is the same problem. If you leave a bin somewhere that is not right next to your house, people can just come along and put their rubbish in it. In fact, even in a town, where I live, it is perfectly possible for that to happen. If you put your bins out to be collected, which is usually overnight, anyone can come along and put the wrong things in your bin. That can happen in my bin, or in Monica Lennon’s bin, or in anyone else’s bin—even in Mr Ruskell’s bin. I do not know where he lives, but there is that issue.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Graham Simpson

Okay—just when you are ready.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Graham Simpson

It has been an interesting discussion, and I thank the members who have contributed. Ben Macpherson, Douglas Lumsden and Monica Lennon all made good points, but the final exchange with the minister was quite revealing, in that I do not think there is enough clarity in certain sections of the bill as it is written. The minister did not clear up who would pay these charges; we have to go with what is actually written in the bill.

I am very happy to talk to the minister about amendment 25 or any other amendment. I guessed that she would not want to obliterate section 9—of course I did, but I will probably not move that amendment. I hope that the rest of the amendments are up for discussion. When the minister and I sit down to chat about amendment 25, perhaps we can widen the discussion and talk about other things on which we might be able to reach consensus.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Graham Simpson

In real time.

Perhaps the approach is too onerous, but there might be a better, different, approach offered at stage 3. However, that would require co-operation from the minister.

I am happy to take any further interventions. I see that Mr Ruskell wants in.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Graham Simpson

If only every minister was as reasonable as Ms Martin. Unfortunately, that is not always the case. We are putting something into legislation that will last far beyond Ms Martin’s tenure in her current post: it will last into the next parliamentary session and beyond, presumably. We need to get it right.

I make the point again that making regulations is not the same as putting something in the text of a bill. This applies in the UK Parliament, too: there is an increasing trend to produce framework bills, and that is not healthy for parliamentary scrutiny. That is why I have lodged my amendments: I am seeking greater detail.

However, unless there are any other interventions—which I would be delighted to take—

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Graham Simpson

Mr Ruskell is making a very interesting point, and he is probably talking about a whole new process, which we do not have at the moment. I am looking at Mr Doris’s screen: he is looking up what super-affirmative SSIs are.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Graham Simpson

Sorry. I was not being—

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Graham Simpson

I will be really quick. The affirmative and super-affirmative procedures have limitations. I would probably go back to what Mr Ruskell was suggesting and what others have suggested in the past, which is that, after 25 years of this Parliament, we might need some new process.

However, as you rightly say, convener, we are not here to deal with that. We are here to deal with the amendments in this group, so I will wind up here.