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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 26 August 2025
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Displaying 2215 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland 2024: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 12 December 2024

Graham Simpson

This might be superseded now, but the Government was telling boards that there was a savings cap of 3 per cent. That has now been overtaken by the Government saying that brokerage is not going to be available, so they should not bother asking.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland 2024: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 12 December 2024

Graham Simpson

When we talk about reform, we are potentially talking about making choices. One of your recommendations is:

“The Scottish Government and NHS boards should: Ahead of 2025/26, jointly identify areas of limited clinical value and consider how services can be provided more efficiently, or withdrawn.”

Did you have anything particular in mind? Can you give an example of something that, in your view, is of limited clinical value?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland 2024: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 12 December 2024

Graham Simpson

Okay. Thank you for that. I have a feeling that we will come back to that, whatever the Government says.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland 2024: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 12 December 2024

Graham Simpson

Turning to the issue of boards being given brokerage loans, it could be said that boards have been bailed out—I have used that phrase before. In the report, you say that, in 2022-23, five boards needed that extra money from the Government to break even and that, in 2023-34, the number increased to eight boards. My initial question is: in your view, why have things got worse?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland 2024: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 12 December 2024

Graham Simpson

Looking through exhibit 6 in the report, I see that, in the column titled “Primary factor for escalation”, the phrase “Mental Health Performance” comes up time and time again. That appears to be a factor with a lot of boards: big spending on mental health services is perhaps pushing them over budget.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland 2024: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 12 December 2024

Graham Simpson

Yes, but every single board would, presumably, try to stay within budget. The reason that they ask for more money is that they do not achieve that.

It is all very well for the Government to say, “Sorry, lads, there is no brokerage this year.” Some boards will, inevitably, not hit their budget targets and will come to the Government to ask for more money. What happens then?

Public Audit Committee

“Fiscal sustainability and reform in Scotland”

Meeting date: 5 December 2024

Graham Simpson

Thanks, convener. I want to go back to the whole issue of reform. I suppose that we could probably agree that reform is not necessarily about saving money, although it might save money. Ultimately, it is about doing things better, I think, so that there are better outcomes for the people we are all here to serve. That might save money, which would be a benefit.

10:45  

The convener has already touched on paragraph 70 in your report, but I will point to paragraph 69, where you say:

“The Scottish Government required all portfolios to lay out their savings and reform plans by the end of the financial year.”

Then in paragraph 70, you talk about public bodies being asked three times to assess their ability to carry out reform. I am concerned that both those paragraphs give the impression of departments, portfolios, or public bodies refusing to play ball on reform. They are not giving the information required. Is that your assessment?

Public Audit Committee

“Fiscal sustainability and reform in Scotland”

Meeting date: 5 December 2024

Graham Simpson

You mentioned a medium-term financial strategy. When do you expect to see that?

Public Audit Committee

“Fiscal sustainability and reform in Scotland”

Meeting date: 5 December 2024

Graham Simpson

I may well, convener—and it seems appropriate to do so.

Of course, Auditor General, I am not asking you to comment on what you think of individual announcements in the budget. You have made some opening remarks, but overall do you think that what you heard yesterday goes any way towards addressing the concerns that you have raised in the report?

Public Audit Committee

“Fiscal sustainability and reform in Scotland”

Meeting date: 5 December 2024

Graham Simpson

To go back to yesterday’s budget, it felt to me as though there were a lot of short-term announcements and not too many long-term announcements, which is what you are looking for. Is that how it felt to you?