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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 9 November 2025
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Displaying 2368 contributions

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Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 June 2025

Graham Simpson

It does come at a cost. Mention has already been made of the price of democracy—I suppose that that is what it is. Although I hope that that price never has to be paid, I am sure that, at some point, it will be paid. We need to have a recall system in Scotland, and that will come at a cost.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 June 2025

Graham Simpson

Yes—as Ms Webber says, it is human nature. Unfortunately, at some point, there will be somebody who just decides that they are not going to come in. The proposal does not target people who have valid reasons not to be here.

I would think that, if you yourself were going to be off for any period, you would probably go and see Ms Mackay and explain why you could not come in, and it would go no further. If she is the caring individual that I think she is, she would say, “Well, that’s okay. Don’t come in for however long you need.” I think that that is probably the way that it would work. However, if someone thinks that they are going to be off for an extended period, for whatever reason, I do not think that it is unreasonable for them to tell the parliamentary authorities that that is the case and to explain why. I trust the parliamentary authorities not to leak that. I trust people in this Parliament to keep things private.

10:30  

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 June 2025

Graham Simpson

I put that question to you. I throw it out to the committee. If the committee is thinking that way, it needs to consider that if we are going to do something with the regional element, we would have to look at the constituency element as well. Otherwise, it is not fair.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 June 2025

Graham Simpson

I am not sure that I understand that question.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 June 2025

Graham Simpson

Correct. It is not for me to get into individual court cases. I mentioned that particular case because it happened and serious offences were involved. To merit that somebody be jailed for six months, the crime would have to be of a sufficient seriousness. However, I do not think that we should list in the bill the offences that would be covered.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 June 2025

Graham Simpson

I will bring in Ben on that one, because we have covered that issue in the policy memorandum.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 June 2025

Graham Simpson

I suppose that it is about all of those, but, ultimately, the first stage is an MSP not performing properly or breaking the rules. The misconduct would come first, otherwise none of this applies. If people behave as they should, none of this applies. Ultimately, if the bill goes through, I would love it just to sit there and never be used, with people wondering why it is there, because everyone is behaving. But life is not like that. You know that. We are all human. At some point, somebody will misbehave, and, although the legislation would be a deterrent, somebody will fall foul of it at some point.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 June 2025

Graham Simpson

I understand the point that you are making very well. If we were to have a recall vote, it is inevitable that people might not be going to the place that they are used to. In a normal election, there are quite a lot of places where people go to vote, but there would be fewer under this system, so people would inevitably be asked to go somewhere different.

People could also use a postal vote, which would address the privacy issue that is a concern, particularly at the first stage, when people are voting only to say that a member should be subject to a recall vote. Postal votes could therefore be available.

If we expect people to go somewhere that they are not used to, it is a matter of communication, information and education.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 June 2025

Graham Simpson

I am dealing with people who fall foul of the rules. In relation to the whips, I am glad that I do not have to answer to you, Ms Mackay.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 June 2025

Graham Simpson

I would not recommend that, but they could do that. They could just take the huff and say, “I’m not coming in.”