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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 4 June 2025
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Displaying 1980 contributions

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Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Minister for Parliamentary Business

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Graham Simpson

That is good. That would be useful.

You are right about the Moveable Transactions (Scotland) Bill. I had a quick look at it. It is quite daunting, but we will get stuck in and do a proper job on it.

My area of questioning is on something that you mentioned earlier: the frustration that you and your officials feel about having very little time to scrutinise UK bills. We have found the same thing with Scottish bills. We had a case of that last week, with the Good Food Nation (Scotland) Bill. The day before the stage 3 debate, the committee received a letter telling us about possible new powers relating to the establishment of a food commissioner. We had no time to consider that.

As you said earlier, today the committee will look at the Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill following stage 2. Stage 3 amendments have to be laid by noon today, but we are discussing the bill only at this meeting. If the committee decided that there should be an amendment, we would, by the end of the meeting, have less than an hour in which to produce one. That is not acceptable, is it?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Minister for Parliamentary Business

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Graham Simpson

We do not set the timescale—you do. Things need to improve; we should not be in this position.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Minister for Parliamentary Business

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Graham Simpson

The committee has not seen that yet.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Minister for Parliamentary Business

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Graham Simpson

My question is not about policy but about giving the committee enough time to deal with whatever is in front of it. I have not mentioned the policy behind the bill.

10:15  

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Minister for Parliamentary Business

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Graham Simpson

Lovely, thank you.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Minister for Parliamentary Business

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Graham Simpson

I was talking about not the UK Government, but you, Mr Adam.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 9 June 2022

Graham Simpson

I do not particularly want you to, but—

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 9 June 2022

Graham Simpson

The DPLR Committee said that the default position should be the affirmative procedure. It did not completely rule out the made affirmative procedure, but it recommended that certain things should be put in place if that procedure is to be used. That was the purpose of amendments in my name that you have voted against, Mr Mason, despite saying that you agree with me.

Given that the committee rejected those amendments, I will not move the amendments in my name in this group and force a vote. However, I am keen to work with the cabinet secretary—if he is up for it; it is up to him—to see whether we can improve things in the area. I make that offer.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 9 June 2022

Graham Simpson

In listening to what you have said about Mr Whittle’s amendment 4, I wonder whether there is room to work with Mr Whittle to improve the amendment for stage 3. You have commented that you feel that it is too restrictive at the moment, but maybe it could be improved.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 9 June 2022

Graham Simpson

I am sure that alarm bells were ringing in the cabinet secretary’s head when Mr Kerr said, “I am trying to be helpful,” but in this case I think that he actually was trying to be helpful.

I have six amendments in the group: amendments 13 to 18. I will be extremely brief, because I know that the committee is up against the clock—I suspect that you will be sitting long into the night on this one.

Amendments 13 to 15 seek to remove sections 8 to 10. I will come to amendments 16 to 18 in a moment.

Section 8 gives ministers the power to make

“regulations ... relating to the continuing operation of an educational establishment for a specified period.”

Oliver Mundell has spoken extensively about that power, which will give ministers powers to close schools. It is a sweeping power with far-reaching consequences.

In my view, closing schools has, in some cases, been harmful. If we were ever to go down that route again, it should involve proper scrutiny. If we were to do that, we should use primary legislation, which can be taken through at pace but would allow for at least some of the severe implications to be explored. That is the route that we should go down, which is why I seek to remove that specific power from the bill altogether.

However, assuming that the committee will not agree to that, I am very much persuaded by the series of amendments from Oliver Mundell and Stephen Kerr, and I recommend them to the committee.

Section 9, which I also seek to remove, gives ministers the power to

“require a relevant manager of a school boarding establishment to take ... steps to restrict or prohibit access to the establishment for a specified period”.

The same argument applies: that is a sweeping power, and the consequences could potentially be severe.

I said that I would be brief, and I am being brief. I move to section 10, which gives ministers powers over student accommodation that would enable them to “restrict ... access” to such accommodation or close it down. The same arguments apply to all three sections that I have highlighted, and I think that they should be removed from the bill.

Amendments 16 to 18 are very similar to amendments that the committee has already considered and, unfortunately, rejected. Those amendments were extremely reasonable and were based on the DPLR Committee’s recommendations. I suspect that members such as Mr Mason would, in their heart of hearts, agree with those amendments but, given that we have already voted on them—[Interruption.]

I see that Mr Mason is itching to come in. Do you want to intervene?