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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 17 September 2025
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Displaying 2241 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 16 November 2023

Graham Simpson

That is—

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 16 November 2023

Graham Simpson

That has all been really useful, and I thank everyone for contributing.

I should say that my understanding of the Metropolitan Police system is that they respond to 999 mental health calls only where there is an immediate threat to life. I am not sure how someone is meant to judge that over the phone; it seems to me to be a rather blunt system. Perhaps we can improve the way in which we deal with things.

Convener, I do not know whether I have time to ask the witnesses about the model that is used in Trieste. I do not know whether you want me to do so.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 16 November 2023

Graham Simpson

It is mentioned in the report that, in Trieste, Italy, they have set up what is essentially a new way of dealing with mental health. The system operates through a network of mental health centres that operate 24 hours a day. People do not need an appointment—they can just walk in. It has not only improved the way in which mental health is dealt with in that area; it is also cheaper than what was there before. That is not why they do it—it has just ended up that way.

You do not have to comment if you have not read that section of the report or if you do not know about the model, but if you have read it and you have any views on it, we would be keen to hear them.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 16 November 2023

Graham Simpson

Before I speak about the police—I will speak to Derek Frew about that, obviously—I want to go back to something that Dr Williams said. I raised the difficulty that people face in getting to see a GP in our evidence session last week. It has become much more difficult. You almost have to get past the receptionist, whereas before, you could phone up, ask for an appointment and be given one. Now people have to explain what is wrong with them to somebody who is not a GP. I do not know whether you agree with me, but that must put people off, particularly people with mental health issues. They may not want to discuss it, so people will be put off and we will miss people. What do you think about that?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 16 November 2023

Graham Simpson

We could spend ages on that subject, but I will move on.

I want to chat to Derek Frew about the police’s involvement in mental health cases, because that has been a big concern of mine for a while now, having spoken to police in my patch. Both the convener and I represent Central Scotland, which includes Lanarkshire. When I speak to the police there—I think that, nationwide, other police say the same—they tell me that the amount of time that officers spend dealing with mental health cases can be very great. The figure that I was given locally was that 80 per cent of cases involve mental health issues, which I found astonishing.

I have also heard locally that there have been incidents where entire shifts of officers have had to sit with people in accident and emergency and so have been unable to deal with other cases. That seems to me to be a ludicrous situation and not a good use of resources. I ask you to comment on that initially, then we will move on.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 9 November 2023

Graham Simpson

What questions did you ask? If you ask, “Do you get stressed about things?”, most people will say yes. It depends on what you ask and how you phrase a question.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 9 November 2023

Graham Simpson

I am glad that you have injected some positivity. I know that you have to shoot off, so I will let you go, but thanks for that—I appreciate it.

I will put my next question just to Jo Anderson, because we are up against the clock. You mentioned outcomes, and the report states:

“The Scottish Government does not measure the quality of services or outcomes for people receiving mental healthcare.”

That seems to me to be a huge oversight. If you accept that the situation should be rectified, how should it be rectified, and what kind of things should we measure?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 9 November 2023

Graham Simpson

That is possibly a question for the Scottish Government, and we will have it in at some point.

I have a separate question about something that arises in the report. This is not necessarily a question for Jo Anderson—I am just looking at you because you are in the room, but it could be for anyone. The report says that spending on medicines to deal with mental health has gone down, because the cost of drugs has gone down, but that the number of items being dispensed has gone up. Does anyone have a view on whether it is appropriate that we are prescribing more and more drugs? Are there better ways of dealing with mental health issues? Is it too easy to prescribe drugs?

I see someone nodding, and I think that it is Simon Porter, so he might want to come in on that.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 9 November 2023

Graham Simpson

Right. Paula Fraser was mentioned first.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 9 November 2023

Graham Simpson

Can I come in there?