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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 1 July 2025
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Displaying 2321 contributions

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Economy and Fair Work Committee

Programme for Government (Priorities)

Meeting date: 9 October 2024

Willie Coffey

Would you say that a positive change in population should be an indicator of positive economic transformation? Despite the very small increase that was reported yesterday, the trend for Ayrshire is still down. Constituents will say to me that we have a lovely national strategy for economic transformation but that the overall population of Ayrshire is still going down. If, overall, people are leaving the county, how can the Government say to constituents such as mine that our transformation strategy has been successful?

10:15  

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Willie Coffey

Thanks very much, convener. Good morning, everybody.

I will come to the reserves issue in a wee minute, Katie, but first of all, on council debt, you must have heard some of our conversations last week with Professor Heald, who talked about local authority debt being upwards of £1 billion. You must also have heard the conversation about what happened, tragically, to some councils down south, which incurred huge amounts of debt that they have been unable to service. In fact, some have, in effect, declared themselves bankrupt.

There was a discussion about the power of general competence, which English councils have, but Scottish councils do not. I asked a direct question whether local councils in Scotland would like such a power, but not, one would hope, to do the same thing that Woking Borough Council did and end up £2 billion in debt.

Is the debt in Scottish councils generally serviceable? Are you collectively able to service and pay that debt as it arises, presumably from borrowing and so forth?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Willie Coffey

My final question is on reserves. In its most recent joint report with the Accounts Commission, Audit Scotland has said that local councils in Scotland are sitting on £4.5 billion of reserves. First, do you accept that figure as being accurate?

I am sure that you will tell me that the money is all earmarked, allocated, committed and so on and so forth, but the committee has actually found it difficult to cut through and see exactly what is usable, non-usable, committed or uncommitted. The report says:

“the lack of transparency in some councils’ annual accounts makes it difficult to draw firm conclusions on councils planned use”

of all those reserves. Do you agree? We are finding it difficult to understand the picture with reserves and all the different categories. Will you offer a general comment on that, please?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Willie Coffey

That was really helpful. Thank you very much, everybody, for offering those explanations.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Willie Coffey

That is a very helpful answer. Are there circumstances in which the Scottish Government would step in—for example, if it felt that a council was borrowing too much and going beyond the CIPFA guidelines and the prudential framework? Has that ever happened? Do you have the power to do that?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Willie Coffey

I turn to the issue of reserves. You might have heard me put to Councillor Hagmann the fact that the Accounts Commission report that said that there is £4.5 billion of reserves sitting with Scotland’s local councils. Councillor Hagmann was very quick to point out that £4 billion of that is already earmarked or committed, leaving £500 million as useable. What is the Scottish Government’s sense of that? Is the figure accurate?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Willie Coffey

Thank you—I appreciate that.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Willie Coffey

Could I just—

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Willie Coffey

Good morning, cabinet secretary, and good morning to your colleagues. You must have heard the discussions last week and, possibly, those earlier today about the debt issue that was faced by some councils in England. The question for us around this table is whether there is a risk that Scottish local authorities could face a similar situation. What are your views on that?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Willie Coffey

The big difference between down south and here was the complete collapse of the external Audit Commission there. The audit function as a whole did not appear to function in some of the councils that have been mentioned. Members discussed that last week, but I believe that we have a strong internal and external audit function in Scotland, which is principally led by Audit Scotland, but which can be found in council departments, too.

The worry for the public when they hear such stories is whether something similar could happen in Scotland, but the drift of the conversation has been that it is unlikely to happen here, because of the protections that we have to guard against that and the measures that you have described, Jamie. Is that a fair comment?