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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 25 June 2025
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Displaying 2045 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 12 September 2024

Bob Doris

That is helpful. One way to build in the flexibilities that the third sector requires is to have a close working relationship as funds are developed—almost like co-produced funding mechanisms. Those funds might be fit for purpose and the process would build trust between the funder and the third sector. Ran, are you aware of any examples of that? Would you like to see that rolled out?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 12 September 2024

Bob Doris

Thanks, Judith. That was commendably concise, and I appreciate that.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2024

Bob Doris

Good afternoon, Philip. Thank you for supporting our evidence sessions. As a former committee convener, I feel your pain about getting Government ministers to attend committees. I struggled persistently to get UK ministers to attend Scottish committees.

I was interested to hear about a draft climate change delivery plan being published at the same time as the five-year carbon budget. Are there any health warnings in relation to that? How detailed could it be, given the year-to-year budgets that the Scottish Parliament gets? Would there be an understanding that a draft budget might have to change to a degree because of the uncertainties with the fiscal framework, which we heard about from Professor Ulph earlier?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2024

Bob Doris

How much of what you are talking about is related to the five-year carbon budgets, and how much of it is related to the climate change plan that will follow? The high-level stuff might be in the five-year carbon budgets, but the plan needs to contain the day-to-day brass tacks of delivery. Should the committee have as much data on both those things before we consider the five-year carbon budgets?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2024

Bob Doris

Is all that doable? I am conscious that projecting what capital expenditure will be required to tackle climate change in Scotland for the next 15 to 20 years is challenging in the first place, given how the Parliament’s finances work. In your earlier remarks, you mentioned the interaction between reserved and devolved spending. Will you say a little more about that?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2024

Bob Doris

Is it your underlying point that it is important to demonstrate what the impacts are likely to look like ahead of setting the five-year budget? We are scrutinising the bill rather than that bigger picture. You think that it is about the data that the Parliament should have ahead of those five-year budgets being set. That was a general comment, but is there anything specific that you want to say on that?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2024

Bob Doris

I will move to my third question. I will bring in Dr Nurse to mop up on any of those previous points but also to answer my third question, which is on the affirmative procedure. It is a very dry parliamentary point about whether the Government consults on its proposals and then seeks parliamentary approval or whether it lays drafts of secondary legislation, consults on those and then potentially changes that draft legislation based on the views of Parliament and wider society. That would be a super-affirmative, rather than an affirmative, procedure. That is what I was trying to draw you on, Professor Roy.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2024

Bob Doris

I see nodding heads among the other witnesses. I apologise to David Hawkey, but I will leave it at that, convener.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2024

Bob Doris

I will be incredibly brief. I do not think that, in a framework bill, we can legislate for a cultural change in how Governments liaise with one another, but my colleague Monica Lennon is absolutely right that partnership working will be absolutely crucial.

In relation to that, when the committee comes to scrutinise the five-year carbon budgets, would it be more helpful to have a longer line of sight and more certainty over Scotland’s capital budget? I am conscious that we set annual budgets in the Scottish Parliament, but I am talking about capital budgets over a 15-year period.

11:45  

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2024

Bob Doris

There is some helpful overlap in some of this. When Parliament comes to scrutinise the five-year carbon budgets, we want to make sure that they are ambitious but also that they are realistic—I think that Dr Nurse is quite clear about being realistic.

We have spoken a bit about the pounds and pence requirements, and Professor Ulph talked about the fiscal constraints and what the costs will be, but, more generally, what information does Parliament need to have at its disposal? I am talking about information not about the bill but about the five-year carbon budgets that the bill enables. What data or information does Parliament need in order to effectively scrutinise whether any carbon budget that comes to this place for consideration is ambitious and realistic? I ask Dr Nurse to respond first.