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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 6 February 2026
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Displaying 2565 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 4 September 2025

Bob Doris

Thank you. I am conscious that Carol Mochan has to leave early today, so I would rather go to theme 3 instead of theme 2 just now. Carol, if you are ready with theme 3, you can jump in.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 4 September 2025

Bob Doris

I do not know whether you want to come back in, Elena, but Tom Wernham has been sitting there quite patiently. As part of your question, you mentioned his research that is about to be published.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 4 September 2025

Bob Doris

I have a wee supplementary on that. Every time that we undertake budget scrutiny, groups in the third sector, and across the board, say that we must invest more, usually in direct cash payments, to meet the statutory duties on child poverty targets that we have in place.

We have already heard today that, if there is money to be spent, putting money in people’s pockets is desirable, but there are desirable ways to spend that money other than taking a cash-first approach, such as running sure start schemes, getting people back to work and supporting families. I think that Elena Whitham talked about that, too.

Given Scotland’s budget and the level of social security spend, how realistic is it for us to go much further on growing the cash spend that goes directly to families and individuals in order to meet our statutory child poverty targets? Is there scope in the budget for us to do much more?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 4 September 2025

Bob Doris

I will come to Tom Wernham in a wee second, but first I want to check something with you, Mairi.

What does the research show? If money became available, how do you believe that it should be directed?

You spoke about policy appraisals. They would come to researchers and analysts, and you sit within that space—well, not you personally, but your organisation does. Do you think that it is desirable, should money be available, to direct more money into the pockets of those who are living in poverty or to invest in wraparound services and support?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 4 September 2025

Bob Doris

Marie McNair will take us on to our final theme.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 4 September 2025

Bob Doris

Jeremy, I am absolutely going to take you next, but I should say that time is almost upon us, so I ask that you make your question brief, if possible.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 September 2025

Bob Doris

Could you clarify something a little bit? Are we effectively saying that the strategy of the Climate Change Committee would have been to use the land that is being used by cattle and livestock today for other purposes to help meet our net zero targets, but that that land will now no longer be available? Can you quantify the amount of land that would have to become mixed use? How would we square that circle? I know that that is for the Scottish Government to set out, rather than for you, but do you have any thoughts in relation to that?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 September 2025

Bob Doris

That is a reasonable answer. You have hinted at land use in relation to not reducing livestock numbers. Perhaps you could say a little bit more about that. If we are not reducing the headcount of livestock, will that have a negative impact on the available land for reforesting and woodlands and so on? If we keep the headage of the dairy and red meat sectors as it is now, what might the knock-on effect be?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 September 2025

Bob Doris

That is helpful. You have touched on some other aspects that I want to ask about, particularly in relation to peatlands. I might come back to the point about contingencies at the end. The Scottish Government has spoken about not following advice on peatland restoration, as I think you were referring to, Dr Devane. It has said that it will set ambitions

“at a realistic level supported by measures to increase delivery capacity”.

Do you have an idea of what that might mean in practice? The issue is what the implications would be of not following the advice set out by the Climate Change Committee. I suspect that you might be talking about contingencies, but perhaps we could deal with that at the end. The Scottish Government is doing a number of things where it may have to rely on other contingencies to get to a balanced pathway.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 2 September 2025

Bob Doris

That is absolutely fine, convener—the caffeine was very helpful.

I will move to the issue of agriculture. As we know, the Climate Change Committee has suggested a sustainable and balanced pathway to net zero. You have been clear that there are other routes that could be taken, but that that balanced pathway still has to be secured.

The Scottish Government has not taken up the cudgels in relation to the policy to reduce livestock numbers—it is looking for another solution in that regard. Can you talk about what the implications of that Scottish Government decision might be for emissions reductions in the agricultural sector and beyond?