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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 5 February 2026
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Displaying 2565 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 25 September 2025

Bob Doris

I will start by asking you about the language used around social security spend. Depending on who is talking, it is an “overspend”, a “black hole”, an “investment” or “planned expenditure” by the Scottish Government and Social Security Scotland. That language is quite important. Do you consider there to be an overspend in the social security budget or do you believe that it is planned expenditure beyond what would have been spent anyway had we just followed Westminster’s policy agenda? Given that the language is quite important when we talk about our budgets, could you comment on that?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 25 September 2025

Bob Doris

We are hearing that it is about getting the balance right.

I mentioned that we spend nearly half a billion pounds on the Scottish child payment and £649 million to mitigate Westminster decisions. That is cash in the system at play. Given that this is pre-budget scrutiny, have any of the parties in the Scottish Parliament suggested that we should divert the half a billion pounds, or a portion of it, from the Scottish child payment, or that we should divert the £649 million, or a portion of it, to other endeavours rather than make the planned investment that the Scottish Government has currently outlined for those funds?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 25 September 2025

Bob Doris

I know that the budget negotiations are private but the committee would be very interested to know if suggestions are made to nibble away at that investment in Social Security Scotland.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 25 September 2025

Bob Doris

Marie McNair and Elena Whitham spoke about potential cliff edge concerns in the future, particularly if the Scottish child payment became much higher. There is a tipping point in the labour market impact. A taper is one way to militate against that, once universal credit entitlement has ended. There is also the idea of a run-on for a number of months, which is a wee bittie different from a taper. I know that that all costs money, so I am not asking you to commit to any of that, but does the Scottish Government look at those things in the round to future proof the direction of travel for policies?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 25 September 2025

Bob Doris

Budget time must be just around the corner because I think that is the first reference that we have heard to the finance secretary’s sofa. Well done to Mr Balfour for that.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Bob Doris

The Braer oil spill happened in 1993, so the current legislation supersedes that example, but I appreciate why it was given.

I am getting my head around an issue that it might be best for Mr Whittle to come in on. Section 40 of the 2014 act, which has been cited by Kevin Stewart, deals with significant environmental harm. In my briefing, I see that there are also the Environmental Liability (Scotland) Regulations 2009, which set out that companies and organisations must proactively take “preventive or remedial measures”. I am learning as I go along, so I am sure that there are other parts of the general legislative landscape that I am not aware of. The deputy convener’s question was whether there are any examples from the past decade or so in which the legislative framework has not been fit for purpose to deal with a significant environmental incident. We do not have clarity on that.

I want to ask Mr Whittle a second question, because I will not be coming back in due to time constraints. Who decides what piece of legislation to use when seeking legal recourse? If the bill goes on the statute book, lots of people will be keen to see it used. However, it might be more appropriate to use section 40 of the 2014 act or the 2009 regulations. I am conscious of setting a legal precedent that determines the bar for what ecocide actually is and it is such a significant threshold that is meant to be reached. Mr Whittle, could you give me some reassurances?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Bob Doris

Maybe I have picked up the previous evidence session wrong, and the point is about a lack of clarity rather than a flaw in the bill, but I wanted to draw that to your attention.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Bob Doris

Could there be a situation in which the threshold for ecocide might be doubtful in relation to the law but the Crown Office and others want to see greater penalties than can be imposed under the 2014 act? That might mean that they seek a remedy using the new legislation so that greater penalties can be imposed, rather than because the incident meets the threshold for ecocide. Is that a danger, Mr Whittle?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Bob Doris

My point was not that we should ditch the 12 months; it is about having a bit of nuance and light and shade. Do you have examples of situations where a derogation would be reasonable, rather than ditching the period altogether?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Bob Doris

My question is on the exact same thing, but that is fine, because maybe it shows that there is something in that. I wonder whether 12 months is always a realistic recovery period. It must have been based on incidents or events that have already happened, but the natural cycle of things might mean that 18 to 24 months would give enough time for a robust and evidence-based recovery plan to be put in place, rather than having a cliff edge of 12 months. Does Jonnie Hall have any comments on that?

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