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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 16 September 2025
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Displaying 2100 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Interests

Meeting date: 4 September 2025

Bob Doris

It is always less than exciting when there is nothing to declare, but there we are.

I understand that, before we move on to the next agenda item, Jeremy Balfour wants to make a short declaration.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 4 September 2025

Bob Doris

Before I bring in David Phillips, I point out that we will explore the block grant in more detail under theme 5—Marie McNair will ask some questions on that. There have been several mentions of the block grant, but there will be opportunities to discuss that further later on.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 4 September 2025

Bob Doris

I am sorry, David, but we will mix it up a little bit. There is a tendency to take the people in the room first rather than people online. That is my fault as convener. I am the one who has to manage that properly and I have not been doing it, so we will hear from David Phillips next.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 4 September 2025

Bob Doris

Before I bring you in, Professor Bell, I should say that the main recommendation that we get from researchers at this committee is that there should be more research done.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 4 September 2025

Bob Doris

David Bell, do you want to come in?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 4 September 2025

Bob Doris

Thank you. I am conscious that Carol Mochan has to leave early today, so I would rather go to theme 3 instead of theme 2 just now. Carol, if you are ready with theme 3, you can jump in.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 4 September 2025

Bob Doris

I do not know whether you want to come back in, Elena, but Tom Wernham has been sitting there quite patiently. As part of your question, you mentioned his research that is about to be published.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 4 September 2025

Bob Doris

I have a wee supplementary on that. Every time that we undertake budget scrutiny, groups in the third sector, and across the board, say that we must invest more, usually in direct cash payments, to meet the statutory duties on child poverty targets that we have in place.

We have already heard today that, if there is money to be spent, putting money in people’s pockets is desirable, but there are desirable ways to spend that money other than taking a cash-first approach, such as running sure start schemes, getting people back to work and supporting families. I think that Elena Whitham talked about that, too.

Given Scotland’s budget and the level of social security spend, how realistic is it for us to go much further on growing the cash spend that goes directly to families and individuals in order to meet our statutory child poverty targets? Is there scope in the budget for us to do much more?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 4 September 2025

Bob Doris

I will come to Tom Wernham in a wee second, but first I want to check something with you, Mairi.

What does the research show? If money became available, how do you believe that it should be directed?

You spoke about policy appraisals. They would come to researchers and analysts, and you sit within that space—well, not you personally, but your organisation does. Do you think that it is desirable, should money be available, to direct more money into the pockets of those who are living in poverty or to invest in wraparound services and support?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 4 September 2025

Bob Doris

Marie McNair will take us on to our final theme.