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All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
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Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 27 November 2025
Bob Doris
Thank you for those opening comments, which will give an important context to our scrutiny session. The first question will come from Jeremy Balfour.
Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 27 November 2025
Bob Doris
Before I bring in my colleague Carol Mochan, which I will do shortly, I put on the record that the social security independent advocacy service is to be provided by Advice Direct Scotland. That is now public information, and the committee will hear from Advice Direct Scotland on 11 December, when there will be more opportunities to explore that.
Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 27 November 2025
Bob Doris
Thanks, Marie. It is a really good line of questioning. We are always under time constraints on a Thursday morning, and I am sorry about that. I want to sneak in a brief question, then Jeremy Balfour wants to come back in.
Elena Whitham raised the issue of how we get to the report’s more personalised and holistic approach for assessments, and Carol Mochan talked about the inconsistencies in decisions. There is a tension between those things; doing one might exacerbate the other. I apologise for a really bad comparison, but I have sat on job interview panels, using points-based systems. You look at competencies and you do a total at the end, but the person who gets the job is not always the person who gets the highest total of points, because you look at things in the round. You look at the points total, which is how you get to your short leet, then you take a step back and look at the overall package that a person might bring to the post. I am sorry for that dreadful comparison, but we have, almost, a cliff-edge system.
The report said that we should stick with the points-based system, despite all its failings, because it is important to provide certainty. However, should there be a degree of discretion whereby an assessor can take a step back and say, “This person is one point short of qualifying, but, if we look holistically at them, they probably should qualify”? Is there a way of mixing the points system with a more holistic approach?
09:45Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 27 November 2025
Bob Doris
That is very helpful—thank you.
Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 27 November 2025
Bob Doris
We could have asked lots more questions, but there are time constraints with a Thursday morning slot. Needless to say, we are very grateful to you for bringing your expertise and speaking to the really important report that you have published. I am sure that it will feature in our legacy report, and I have no doubt that our successor committee on the other side of the Scottish elections will return to the issue in due course. For now, I thank you.
We will suspend briefly before moving to our next panel of witnesses.
09:51 Meeting suspended.Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 27 November 2025
Bob Doris
We turn to our second panel of witnesses for our scrutiny of adult disability payment. I welcome to the meeting Stephen Boyle, the Auditor General for Scotland; and Erin McGinley, senior auditor, performance audit and best value, from Audit Scotland. Thank you both for joining us today. I acknowledge that you sat through the previous evidence session, and we are very grateful for that. I invite the Auditor General to make some brief opening remarks.
Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 27 November 2025
Bob Doris
I do not want to get caught up in this, so I will just move on to the next question, which I hope does not sound like a daft-laddie one. How can we objectively measure fairness, dignity and respect? I am unclear about that.
Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 27 November 2025
Bob Doris
Because of time constraints, it will have to be brief.
Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 27 November 2025
Bob Doris
Are you talking about the end-to-end process?
Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 27 November 2025
Bob Doris
I think that that was perhaps a “maybe”, Mr Balfour. I call Carol Mochan.