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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 16 September 2025
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Displaying 2121 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Alternative Certification Model

Meeting date: 22 September 2021

Bob Doris

I am interested in Mr Mundell’s line of questioning, because it gets to the heart of some of what we are talking about. We need clarity about what happened rather than snapshots of attainment. My understanding is that, in historically challenging circumstances, the attainment gap technically closed in both 2020 and 2021, compared to 2019 and previous years. Is that the understanding of our witnesses?

There is another important point. Does some of the difference between 2020 and 2021 have to do with the role of internal moderation procedures, whether those are departmental, whole school, local authority or across local authorities? I would like to better understand the moderation procedures that existed in local authorities in 2021 compared to those used in 2020.

One of the issues, of course, is that, without an exam—as unsuitable as those are for many young people—you do not have that benchmark. In 2020, we did not have that benchmark to refer to.

I am interested to know about 2020 and 2021 compared to 2019 and previous years, and I am also interested in the role of moderation in schools at a local authority level in 2021 compared to 2020, because that might flush out some of the issues.

Of course, the lockdown from January to March clearly had a massive impact. It might not be ACM that led to that differential; it might have been that January to March lockdown. I am interested to know the witnesses’ views on that, too.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Alternative Certification Model

Meeting date: 22 September 2021

Bob Doris

There is lot of confidence in the robust processes that underpinned the alternative certification model for 2021. There will always be room to improve that model, but it is consistent across the country.

There was, however, a contradiction in some of the SQA guidance in relation to there being a reliance on exam-style evidence but there also being an encouragement for schools and departments not to have traditional exit-style exams. We heard from young people that, in some schools, they got a large exam and, if they did not meet the standard, they got a second exam and then a third exam—so they got multiple opportunities to prove that they had reached the standard. Unfortunately, the process was top heavy in the last few weeks. What guidance did your local authorities give out about what best practice looks like in relation to unavoidable assessments in those last few weeks, and is there need for greater consistency? There seems to be a bit of a patchwork experience across and within schools and local authorities.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Alternative Certification Model

Meeting date: 22 September 2021

Bob Doris

Do you recognise that moderation is not about second guessing but rather about providing professional support and assistance to assure the professional in the classroom?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland

Meeting date: 9 September 2021

Bob Doris

That is very helpful. Sometimes a significant increase in complaints does not mean that something untoward is going on with an elected representative. It might actually be a success in that the office is more accessible to people who want to complain, as difficult as that is for elected representatives.

I was pleased to see in the draft plan that there will be a new statement on purposes, values and strategic objectives. I suppose that it is stating the obvious to say that that is a good thing, but it does beg a question. If that statement did not exist before, what was missing and what added benefit will the new statement give?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Cross-party Group

Meeting date: 9 September 2021

Bob Doris

Convener, you make a very important point about putting statistics, data or facts that change over time into the purpose of CPG. Gordon MacDonald was quite right to draw that issue to our attention and to seek permission to change the group’s purpose.

I note that the sector employs 47,000 people, has sales of £4 billion and contributes £40 million in gross value added to Scotland’s economy per annum. I am delighted to put that on the record for my colleague Gordon MacDonald, but I suppose that it is also a snapshot of time. What if a new report comes out and that data changes? If we have such data within the purpose of a CPG, should there be a reference to the nature of those figures? They could be from one year ago, two years ago or a report that was published last week—I have no idea. So, as soon as we approve the purpose—and I think that we should do so—they may be out of date.

My second point is about the procedure. If such things are put into the purpose of a CPG and the statistical data changes but the group wishes to keep that information within the purpose of the CPG—in this case, I think it is to draw the importance of the sector to the attention of Parliament quite clearly up front, and I get why they wish to do that—we could simply note the change and it could be a procedural matter rather than needing to be a formal agenda item. However, I am not sure of the process around that.

I hope that those two points are helpful.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland

Meeting date: 9 September 2021

Bob Doris

—[Inaudible.]

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland

Meeting date: 9 September 2021

Bob Doris

Although I am not responsible for the information technology, I apologise for the inconvenience to fellow members and the commissioner.

I think that I heard the convener ask a question that I had been going to ask about the conflict between being prescriptive, to achieve good outcomes in diversity and to ensure best practice, and the flexibility and innovation that the Government had said that it wanted. I think that you got some good stuff on the record in relation to that, convener, so there is no need for me to ask about it. That is what I picked up from the bits of sound that I could make out.

09:45  

I will ask the follow-up question. Will the revised code help with finding a balance between achieving diversity—we want diversity to be achieved, of course—and ensuring that boards retain their range of essential skills? As well as achieving diversity from the point of view of protected characteristics, including people from various income backgrounds—it is good to hear what you have said about that—and having a diversity of opinion and views, we need people to have the relevant skills. There can be a tension between achieving diversity and getting the relevant skills. How do we get that balance?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland

Meeting date: 9 September 2021

Bob Doris

Thank you. I will let other members come in. I again apologise for the disruption at the start of the meeting.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland

Meeting date: 9 September 2021

Bob Doris

Hello.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland

Meeting date: 9 September 2021

Bob Doris

I find that last comment very helpful. Can I infer from what you are saying that the purposes, the values and the objectives are things that your office may have been doing anyway but that people cannot just take that for granted? It is about putting that out openly in the public domain, and, as you expand the staffing team in your office, making sure that staff are clear about what it means. I particularly like the bit about whether members of the public feel you are upholding your purposes, your values and your strategic objectives. I think that that is really helpful—it was a helpful answer.

Page 5 of the draft strategic plan sets out some key changes that you wish to deliver, such as

“Recruiting and developing staff to ensure consistent high quality of our professional skills base”.

I think that there are six or seven key changes. I will not run through them all because of time constraints and the fact that my eyesight probably will not allow me to see the tiny typing on the handout that I have. How do you think that the key changes that you have set out will improve the quality of the outputs from your office? You may want to pick one or two of them and flesh out the differences that you think they will make.