The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
Displaying 2641 contributions
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee
Meeting date: 9 December 2025
Bob Doris
I think that we are all flying blind.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee
Meeting date: 9 December 2025
Bob Doris
That is helpful. I know that there is a threshold that would apply to whether the test for the criminal offence has been met. However, you have talked about the offence happening over a period of time and I am trying to flesh that out a little bit. There is an event and there is a process and there could be a distinction between those, although maybe not in the eventual outcome of what could be defined as an ecocide. Whether a company, a farmer or an organisation is doing something in good faith or not, as the case may be—that would have to be established—in the past 10 years, the test for an ecocide might not be met from one year to the next.
If we do a compare and contrast from 2011 to 2021 on biodiversity or anything else, we might find that there has been a stark change and that the test has been met. Is there a particular time period that must apply, or are the provisions completely open ended, covering a course of conduct over one year, two years, five years or 10 years, irrespective of what the threshold is for reckless conduct and so on?
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee
Meeting date: 9 December 2025
Bob Doris
Irrespective of what is agreed at the conference of the parties, I take it that the UK Government will have to bring in a suite of powers and regulations to give effect to whatever is agreed internationally, in order to make sure that organisations across the UK comply with the UK’s international obligations. That is perhaps where it impinges on devolved competences.
Dr Dingwall said that agreements might be made more generally, but there are deep seabed mining and marine licensing regimes to consider. I will not comment on rocket launches, but there is also carbon capture and wave power. The Scottish Government would be acting in accordance with its rules, licensing regimes and regulations, but there would be a UK layer that could dictate what that looks like at a Scottish level on matters that were previously devolved. Is that where the rub is? Is that why you are looking for consent to be required from the Government and the Parliament, rather than just to be consulted?
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee
Meeting date: 9 December 2025
Bob Doris
I am not sure where that leaves the committee, but thank you, cabinet secretary.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 2 December 2025
Bob Doris
I am just checking—could we still say that we had created an ecocide offence, because we could put that in the bill that amended the 2014 act—
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 2 December 2025
Bob Doris
So it is possible, but it would perhaps not be as visible as the member in charge of the bill would like it to be. I just wanted to check that.
When we are wrestling with the difference between an ecocide offence and reform of the 2014 act, we need to look at the definition of “ecocide” in relation to there being “serious adverse effects” that are either “widespread” or “long-term”. The committee’s notes referred to that as a bespoke definition; I think that you also used that term earlier, cabinet secretary. Is that definition necessary, and is it appropriate to define “severe environmental harm” in the way that is done in the bill for the purpose of an ecocide offence?
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 2 December 2025
Bob Doris
I appreciate that these are quite difficult matters to navigate around. The committee is thinking—or at least I am thinking—about the fact that an environmental impact from 2024 to 2025 might be relatively minor but that an environmental impact from 1985 to 2025 might be quite significant and profound. You could see that the impact might not look that significant in one year, but that, incrementally—
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 2 December 2025
Bob Doris
People say that you should not ask a question that you do not know the answer to, cabinet secretary, but I am going to do it anyway. How does section 40 of the 2014 act deal with such long-term impacts? Does the 2014 act have appropriate provisions in that regard?
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 2 December 2025
Bob Doris
Yes, of course.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 2 December 2025
Bob Doris
Yes, of course.
I want to look at how the bill applies some other definitions in relation to the harm caused by a course of conduct or consequential impact over time. Is the bill sufficiently clear on that aspect? In earlier evidence sessions, we have talked about the fact that an organisation could believe that it had a clean bill of health each year because it was meeting all the regulatory requirements—it was respecting and considering those requirements. However, if someone were to look at the impact over a significant amount of time, the organisation could find that its activities fell within the definition of ecocide. Is the way that the bill would apply in relation to the harm caused by a course of conduct or consequential impact over time appropriate?