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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 5 February 2026
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Displaying 2565 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Adult Disability Payment

Meeting date: 27 November 2025

Bob Doris

That sounds absolutely fair. It is up to the Government to respond and work out how we would do that.

Do you want to come back in on that, Mr Boyle?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Adult Disability Payment

Meeting date: 27 November 2025

Bob Doris

Thank you. I call Carol Mochan.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Adult Disability Payment

Meeting date: 27 November 2025

Bob Doris

Thank you, Stephen. I apologise to committee members for taking up a chunk of airtime, but I thought that it was important, given what we have coming down the line. Alexander Stewart is next.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Adult Disability Payment

Meeting date: 27 November 2025

Bob Doris

That concludes our evidence session. Stephen Boyle and Erin McGinley, I thank you for your support in helping us to understand the report. I ask you to stay seated for a brief moment, to allow me to sneakily move on to agenda item 3 without suspending proceedings.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Adult Disability Payment

Meeting date: 27 November 2025

Bob Doris

Thank you for those opening comments, which will give an important context to our scrutiny session. The first question will come from Jeremy Balfour.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Adult Disability Payment

Meeting date: 27 November 2025

Bob Doris

Before I bring in my colleague Carol Mochan, which I will do shortly, I put on the record that the social security independent advocacy service is to be provided by Advice Direct Scotland. That is now public information, and the committee will hear from Advice Direct Scotland on 11 December, when there will be more opportunities to explore that.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Adult Disability Payment

Meeting date: 27 November 2025

Bob Doris

Thanks, Marie. It is a really good line of questioning. We are always under time constraints on a Thursday morning, and I am sorry about that. I want to sneak in a brief question, then Jeremy Balfour wants to come back in.

Elena Whitham raised the issue of how we get to the report’s more personalised and holistic approach for assessments, and Carol Mochan talked about the inconsistencies in decisions. There is a tension between those things; doing one might exacerbate the other. I apologise for a really bad comparison, but I have sat on job interview panels, using points-based systems. You look at competencies and you do a total at the end, but the person who gets the job is not always the person who gets the highest total of points, because you look at things in the round. You look at the points total, which is how you get to your short leet, then you take a step back and look at the overall package that a person might bring to the post. I am sorry for that dreadful comparison, but we have, almost, a cliff-edge system.

The report said that we should stick with the points-based system, despite all its failings, because it is important to provide certainty. However, should there be a degree of discretion whereby an assessor can take a step back and say, “This person is one point short of qualifying, but, if we look holistically at them, they probably should qualify”? Is there a way of mixing the points system with a more holistic approach?

09:45  

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Adult Disability Payment

Meeting date: 27 November 2025

Bob Doris

That is very helpful—thank you.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Adult Disability Payment

Meeting date: 27 November 2025

Bob Doris

We could have asked lots more questions, but there are time constraints with a Thursday morning slot. Needless to say, we are very grateful to you for bringing your expertise and speaking to the really important report that you have published. I am sure that it will feature in our legacy report, and I have no doubt that our successor committee on the other side of the Scottish elections will return to the issue in due course. For now, I thank you.

We will suspend briefly before moving to our next panel of witnesses.

09:51 Meeting suspended.  

09:53 On resuming—  

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Adult Disability Payment

Meeting date: 27 November 2025

Bob Doris

We turn to our second panel of witnesses for our scrutiny of adult disability payment. I welcome to the meeting Stephen Boyle, the Auditor General for Scotland; and Erin McGinley, senior auditor, performance audit and best value, from Audit Scotland. Thank you both for joining us today. I acknowledge that you sat through the previous evidence session, and we are very grateful for that. I invite the Auditor General to make some brief opening remarks.