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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 19 December 2025
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Displaying 2469 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Wellbeing and Sustainable Development (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 November 2025

Bob Doris

Mr Torrance’s question gets to the heart of a lot of this. If the national performance framework and the national outcomes are reformed in a way that means that they can be used to scrutinise public bodies effectively to ensure that they are meeting their obligations, that would be very welcome. The committee would welcome hearing a bit more detail—if not this morning, at a later point—about how the Scottish Government is seeking to do that. There is quite a strong argument that that could work well, but, in the absence of information on how the reform process is going, the committee is left with a bit of a gap in respect of how we can take an informed view on that. Perhaps you could provide us with that detail, either this morning or by coming back to the committee in writing.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Wellbeing and Sustainable Development (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 November 2025

Bob Doris

I come to Sarah Boyack—thank you for your patience, Sarah. You have listened to the committee members asking questions, so there is a bit of time for you to ask some questions if you wish.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Wellbeing and Sustainable Development (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 November 2025

Bob Doris

Seeing as it is you, Ms Boyack, you can ask one more question.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Wellbeing and Sustainable Development (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 November 2025

Bob Doris

The good news is that Sarah Boyack will get to swap seats with the minister next week, when we will take oral evidence from her on the Wellbeing and Sustainable Development (Scotland) Bill.

I thank the minister and his officials for attending the meeting to help us scrutinise the bill.

09:47 Meeting continued in private until 10:46.  

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 13 November 2025

Bob Doris

Good morning, and welcome to the 29th meeting in 2025 of the Social Justice and Social Security Committee. We have received apologies from Collette Stevenson. David Torrance is substituting for her; thank you for joining us, David. I also welcome Sarah Boyack to the meeting. I hope that Michael Marra will join us later.

Under agenda item 1, we must decide whether to take item 3 in private. Do members agree to do so?

Members indicated agreement.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Wellbeing and Sustainable Development (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 November 2025

Bob Doris

My only follow-up would be that, irrespective of what the Government thinks or what the committee recommends, we need to know whether there would be a fix for that issue if the bill were to pass. Is there a fix that would ensure that public bodies and the proposed commissioner could co-exist without there being a messy overlap?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Wellbeing and Sustainable Development (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 November 2025

Bob Doris

My apologies to anyone who is watching this session who is not a bit geekish in this field, as it all sounds a bit abstract. It would be helpful if the Government could give us any examples of where the NPF and the outcomes are being scrutinised—even imperfectly—and public bodies are, to a degree, being held to account or encouraged to improve their standards in that regard, rather than talking in the abstract.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Wellbeing and Sustainable Development (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 November 2025

Bob Doris

That is helpful. I know that members will refer to the national performance framework in the questions that they will ask shortly. I have written down that there are other ways to address the gap that has been referred to, rather than primary legislation. However, the committee has received evidence that obligations on sustainable development

“must be fulfilled before and at the time when a particular policy is being considered or decision taken”.

How can we ensure that that happens without legislation?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Wellbeing and Sustainable Development (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 November 2025

Bob Doris

Elena Whitham would like to come in.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Wellbeing and Sustainable Development (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 November 2025

Bob Doris

The committee would find that helpful, minister.