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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 7 July 2025
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Displaying 2048 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 March 2024

Bob Doris

It is helpful to have some real-life examples of how the provision will have to be applied in practice, so I appreciate that.

I will move on. I will turn back the clock slightly to talk about redeterminations and appeals. I suppose that this question is for Jon Shaw, because the issue was raised in CPAG’s written evidence. The bill will allow for a review of a decision on overpayment liability. The legislation refers to a review, but, Mr Shaw, I think that your organisation refers to a redetermination. Are those just different words for the same thing?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 March 2024

Bob Doris

That is very helpful, because I now realise that there is a very clear difference between reviews and redeterminations, which I was not aware of. Thank you for that, Mr Shaw.

If there is a review, is it unclear whether that will still progress to an appeal if that review is not successful for the individual? Is that one of the more substantive issues in relation to why redeterminations and reviews are different? I just want the committee to be clear on that point. I am sorry if I have not understood correctly, Mr Shaw, but I want to tease out the importance of a redetermination as opposed to a review.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 March 2024

Bob Doris

It is always helpful to get a real-life example, because it makes the situation real rather than our just dealing with dusty legislation, if you like. Was that repayment figure requested by Social Security Scotland?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 March 2024

Bob Doris

Given that Mr Shaw has set out priorities for using the greater flexibility in the bill and the provision for a stand-alone benefit, I will direct my question to him.

The Scottish child payment is not about providing more money; it is about providing greater flexibilities, which might require more money. Will you say a little bit more about the cliff edge, not just in relation to universal credit but in relation to better-off calculations for people? They might lose their entitlement to universal credit because they increase their hours of work or get into full-time employment. Does that mean a hard landing for some families, and is there a disincentive for some people to go into work because there is no taper or roll-on in relation to Scottish child payment levels as folk get employment or go into full-time employment?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 March 2024

Bob Doris

—and there is an issue of whether a threshold would be in the bill or whether the bill would provide the power for an income threshold to be set at a later date, on the basis that secondary legislation could amend the income threshold, as appropriate. However, I am conscious that any agreed income threshold might be a bit arbitrary. There are other things that might be happening in an individual’s life that must also be taken into account. Are you wedded to an income threshold? If so, should that be in the bill? Might more meaningful guidance also be a way round that situation?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 March 2024

Bob Doris

That is helpful. Thank you.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Environmental Governance

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Bob Doris

Yes, it is important that you put that on the record, so thank you for doing that.

Dr Dixon and Mr Roberts will understand that these questions come from previous evidence that we have heard in relation to the matter.

Some witnesses have suggested that ESS has not quite got into the swing of using its full range of enforcement powers. Informal agreements can be better sometimes, but ESS has a range of enforcement powers and questions have been raised about whether there is sufficient expertise as yet within this young organisation, as both witnesses have put it, and whether ESS is fully resourced. This is your opportunity to respond to some of those comments.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Environmental Governance

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Bob Doris

The point that the use of enforcement powers is not necessarily a sign of success was well made. There are other ways to get the outcomes that ESS is looking for. That was interesting to hear. However, you also talked about the very high bar that applies before some of those powers can be used. I put my hands up: I have no idea whether it is appropriate that the bar is set so high. Is it set at a reasonable level for ESS, or are you still taking into account that you are bedding in as an organisation before you can determine that?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Environmental Governance

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Bob Doris

That is very helpful. Thank you.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Bob Doris

I might just do that at some point in the future. I was not trying to throw you a curve ball; I could simply have asked whether exceptionally good use was being made of public funds, and I think that the answer to that would simply be yes, for all the reasons that you have just outlined.

The point that I was making is that, if such a massive investment of public money is going into the bus network without compromising any of the entitlements, there might be a more effective way to use the investment in the future. I think the minister has said that he is not closed to that, but he is currently wedded to the current system, as he should be.