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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 8 July 2025
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Displaying 2048 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security Scotland

Meeting date: 28 March 2024

Bob Doris

That explanation is helpful. It seems common sense that there should be a duty on Social Security Scotland in such circumstances to tell people such as John not to withdraw from the process, because it still has the right to appeal to the Upper Tribunal, and that what John sought in the first place would be locked in until any potential Upper Tribunal appeal has been disposed of. That must be a pretty straightforward thing to make happen.

More widely, Ms Young, you have given one case study or example, but I am sure that there are lots of others where, if common sense were to prevail, we could just fix things. Is there a general need for a review of the guidance, advice and information that Social Security Scotland gives out in such circumstances?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security Scotland

Meeting date: 28 March 2024

Bob Doris

I would have thought that, in such a situation, a basic duty of care from Social Security Scotland would kick in.

I will mop up one final aspect of this helpful line of questioning. Mr Gass talked about the bespoke one-page form that distils all the key information that you can assist clients in completing, which they then sign and off it goes. However, because of the specifics of legislation, a 16-page form has to be sent as part of a box-ticking exercise. I know that this is a rather mundane workaround, but could that form not simply be sent blank with an addendum attached to it? As long as that form had been sent in, it would still count. That is a workaround and not a solution.

Are there clear workarounds, in the very short term, that you could work with Social Security Scotland to secure?

Richard Gass indicated agreement.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 March 2024

Bob Doris

There might be a few daft-laddie questions this morning, so I apologise, but I would prefer to understand properly.

Our briefing paper says that applicable benefits could be claimed back for up to five years. Does the certificate relate to benefits that have been received up to the date of the award or do you fast forward? If, as a direct result of an injury, a claimant will be on devolved or reserved benefits for ever or for a prolonged period, is that taken into account for clawback? How does that work?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security Scotland

Meeting date: 28 March 2024

Bob Doris

That is even better, Mr Gass.

What are the witnesses’ views on having a review process for those benefits, as opposed to a redetermination or an appeals process? So far, is the process working fine, or would you like to see any changes? I suspect that, with little experience, there might not be a lot to say. For the record, Ms Young, what are your thoughts on that?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security Scotland

Meeting date: 28 March 2024

Bob Doris

That is helpful.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 March 2024

Bob Doris

I do not want to create a division between the witnesses—although it would be nice to get one, because you are all agreeing with each other.

Mr Ross, I think that you are saying that we would need awareness raising of the terminology and the phraseology around the different system in Scotland, rather than taking it for granted that all individuals who work in the sector would be fully aware of the situation. I am sure that they are aware, but we would need to get it right and be 100 per cent sure. Is that what you are saying?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 March 2024

Bob Doris

So the big takeaway for us is the need for a single point of contact for the sector in delivering on this. You guys do not have to address the complexities—it is for the DWP and Social Security Scotland, between them, to deal with those. You do not have to see those complexities as long as the front-end user that Lynne Macfarlane was talking about can just continue as they always have done, with the appropriate training.

Sorry, Lynne—I apologise if I have misrepresented your position.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 March 2024

Bob Doris

In asking my question, I should caveat it by saying that I absolutely agree that the idea of having a single point of contact and as little disruption as possible for claimants, defenders and the sector makes absolute sense. However, I am looking at the amount-recoverable estimates from Social Security Scotland compared with the set-up and on-going running costs. It could effectively be cost neutral at the end of the day, or it might not collect very much.

I suppose that there are commercial negotiations behind the scenes between the DWP and Social Security Scotland, so the more figures that are put in the public domain, the more the DWP can squeeze for a better deal for itself in relation to this. We could get to a point in the future where the figures show that it makes sense to set up a stand-alone Scottish system, which could still dovetail nicely with the UK system. The bill does not suggest that, and I am not suggesting that—I am asking a question about future proofing, given that it is pretty self-evident from the numbers, if I have looked at them accurately, that the benefit to the Scottish taxpayer of doing this at all is relatively minimal in the first instance. If we fast forward five or 10 years, and the numbers show that there is a business case to set up a stand-alone Scottish system, do you have any reflections on how that could be done, and whether there is a way of dovetailing nicely with the wider UK system?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 March 2024

Bob Doris

That is very helpful and important to put on the record. The key thing is that, whatever happens in the future, we take the insurance industry and litigators with us in that process to ensure that there is no disruption to the most important thing, which, as Lynne Macfarlane keeps going on about, is the front-end business of ensuring that people get the compensation that they deserve.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 March 2024

Bob Doris

So, it relates to benefits actually received and is a full and final settlement. There is no predication of future benefits being accrued.