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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 5 July 2025
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Displaying 385 contributions

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Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Dual Mandates

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

Yes, that is correct.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Dual Mandates

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

Precisely. That is an erudite explanation of what I was trying of say. I will remember what you said and use it next time.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Dual Mandates

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

I think so. Requiring them to have left would add another layer of complexity. Ultimately, they would be required to exercise that duty. If they did not, they would cease to be an MSP and could no longer be a minister. To be a minister in the Scottish Government, you have to be an MSP.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Dual Mandates

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

May I?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Dual Mandates

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

Forgive me if I was not clear. We would prescribe the time period. I was merely making the point that the time period would probably reflect our usual period running up to the summer recess. We would not prescribe it up until the summer recess; it would be however many weeks.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Dual Mandates

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

Precisely the same thing would happen.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Dual Mandates

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

They would have to make a choice within the prescribed period.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Dual Mandates

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

Correct.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

First, that support is for the principle, and for the reasons that I have laid out, which is to enhance confidence in the process to ensure that members are held to the highest standards of behaviour and where that is felt not to be the case, the ultimate arbiter is the public. That principle is worth while, and you will recall that, on 29 May 2024, the Parliament had a vote, in which ministers voted in favour of the principle of a recall system. Of course, the devil is in the detail, so we are now moving from the principle to the practical considerations with regard to what that system would look like. We support the principle, and along with the Parliament, we now have to consider the specific details.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

Ultimately, the whole process is triggered by issues around conduct, so that must be the starting premise. As an aside, on proportionality, there are two issues. The first is whether a system of recall is proportionate to the trigger mechanism. Mr Simpson has set out what that might be and it is for the Parliament to consider whether that is proportionate. However, if I have picked you up correctly, that is not the issue of proportionality that you are referring to. Secondly, there is the question of whether the process could have the effect of altering proportionality, as determined at a general election. The answer is yes, it could. To an extent, our system already has that built in through the by-election process. We have just been through a by-election. I will not linger too long on the outcome of that, but it changed the nature of the numbers, by comparison with the general election that happened in 2021. Therefore, that is already part of our system. I accept that the bill would add—“complication” came to mind, but it is not the right word—another layer to the issues that might affect proportionality. However, as I said, that is already a facet of our electoral system.