The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
Displaying 757 contributions
Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Jamie Hepburn
I am aware of that.
Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Jamie Hepburn
I appreciate your position, but I am asking whether you think that the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service and Police Scotland are wrong.
Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Jamie Hepburn
I am asking what you would say in response if they raised the same issue about any other bill.
Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Jamie Hepburn
Returning to UNCRC compliance, I did not, to be frank, think that this would be raised as an issue in evidence, but the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Office flagged it almost as an aside.
Indeed, I was struck by what was said when I asked about the matter in our evidence session with the COPFS and the Law Society of Scotland. You have said that you are clear that the bill has no UNCRC compliance issues, but I will quote from the Official Report of a previous meeting. When I asked Dr Forbes from the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service whether she had
“the sense that not enough thought has been given to the issue of compliance with the UNCRC at this stage”,
she replied:
“I did not see it addressed in the policy memorandum, I have to say.”
When I further asked Dr Forbes whether she felt that not enough due consideration had been given to the issue and whether there was
“a possibility that the bill as drafted might fall foul of our legislation with regard to compliance with the UNCRC”. —[Official Report, Criminal Justice Committee, 10 December 2025; c 23.],
she gave a preamble but, effectively, her answer to the question was yes. Why is the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service wrong and you are right?
Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Jamie Hepburn
I do not think that Scottish Women’s Aid was necessarily saying that it would apply to their organisation specifically. It was talking about the burden that the bureaucracy would place on Police Scotland, and so on.
Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Jamie Hepburn
Well, let us suppose that you were. Where should it come from?
Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Jamie Hepburn
Okay.
Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Jamie Hepburn
Sorry—that is what I meant. I have no doubt that you have spoken with the Crown Office—I would be surprised if you had not—but I meant that you did not ask about this specific issue. That is useful to understand.
This is my final question on part 3, convener, which is on an area that I think is important. Concerns have been raised about victims possibly being asked the same questions multiple times by multiple organisations, which could lead to some form of retraumatisation, and about the approach in the bill not being trauma informed. Have you considered that? Is it a concern for you? It would be a concern for me. Are you concerned that such an approach could retraumatise victims?
Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Jamie Hepburn
It is quite a significant variance.
Similarly, on part 2 of the bill, COSLA provided the Finance and Public Administration Committee with data from a local authority, which suggested that the Caledonian programme’s
“cost per person amounts to approximately £3,460”
whereas the cost per person outlined in your financial memorandum is £2,325. Again, that is a significant difference, is it not?
Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Jamie Hepburn
So, you would be willing to make changes to the bill to make this bill UNCRC compliant but, right now, you think that it is.