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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 18 December 2025
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Displaying 567 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee Draft

Prostitution (Offences and Support) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 November 2025

Jamie Hepburn

This might be a difficult question to answer, but in circumstances in which section 46 of the 1982 act did not exist, is it likely that there would have been enough grounds for those prosecutions still to have proceeded?

Criminal Justice Committee Draft

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 5 November 2025

Jamie Hepburn

That is useful to understand.

Your submission has been helpful, and I thank you for sending it to us. You have also touched on this point in some of your responses thus far, chief constable. One section of your submission discusses “emerging issues”, and I want to go through a few of those that you have set out. I appreciate that you might not have an answer as to the specific costs, so you might have to come back to us on that.

You noted the

“anti-immigration protests focusing on hotels”.

I do not know whether there is a way of working out what the costs of that to Police Scotland have been.

You also mention having to police

“the proscription by the UK Government of ‘Palestine Action Group’.”

Again, I do not know whether you have a figure for the cost of that to Police Scotland.

There was also operation roll 2 for the visit of President Trump. You mention

“the significant demand placed upon policing in Scotland”,

which we would all understand would be the result of such a visit. What was the cost of that?

11:30  

Criminal Justice Committee Draft

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 5 November 2025

Jamie Hepburn

It would be useful to have the costs broken down for each of those areas.

I think that you have answered the question. In effect, you just have to deal with those issues within the budgetary envelope. It is not as though you can forecast or plan for that. What is the operating assumption at the start of any financial year for that type of activity?

Criminal Justice Committee Draft

Prostitution (Offences and Support) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 November 2025

Jamie Hepburn

That would be useful in helping our understanding.

There are two ways of looking at the issue. Given the basis on which cases are operating at the moment, the obvious question might be: what would be the purpose of repealing section 46 of the 1982 act? Maybe that gets to the heart of Sharon Dowey’s question about whether it is still useful to have that provision as part of what we might call the armoury that is available for use in investigations. Alternatively, if it is not being used, why should we keep it on the statute book? What is your perspective on that?

Criminal Justice Committee Draft

Prostitution (Offences and Support) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 November 2025

Jamie Hepburn

Do you dismiss the notion that such a change could increase the risk of violence against those involved in selling sex? That is the fundamental question—would it increase that likelihood?

Criminal Justice Committee Draft

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 5 November 2025

Jamie Hepburn

Again, that is useful to understand. Your submission goes on to say:

“we remain committed to driving further efficiencies in our own activities.”

Can you set out at this stage what that might mean? Is there a quantifiable figure at the moment, or will it emerge down the line?

Criminal Justice Committee Draft

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 5 November 2025

Jamie Hepburn

That, too, is helpful to understand. The committee would be interested in hearing what further steps are taken in that regard as that emerges.

Criminal Justice Committee Draft

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 5 November 2025

Jamie Hepburn

The comparison is with the other UK authorities.

Criminal Justice Committee Draft

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 5 November 2025

Jamie Hepburn

It might be worth us looking into that a lot further.

What is the cost to the Police Authority of the increased national insurance contributions? I asked Police Scotland a similar question.

Criminal Justice Committee Draft

Prostitution (Offences and Support) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 November 2025

Jamie Hepburn

Certainly. This will be my final one. Only Police Scotland responded to the point about whether there should be a statutory right for people involved in selling sex to access support services. Everyone on the panel is entitled to answer, of course, but I put my question to Detective Superintendent Bertram in particular. What should such support look like?

We heard evidence that experience of such changes in Sweden did not result in an improved relationship between those selling sex and the police there, but that the Irish experience was different and the change has improved that interaction. How would the situation here link to those experiences?