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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 13 August 2025
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Displaying 2597 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s economy: supporting businesses through the Covid-19 pandemic”

Meeting date: 23 June 2022

Colin Beattie

Your briefing states:

“Business support funding payments will be included in the next National Fraud Initiative data matching exercise.”

To what extent could other areas of Covid-related fraud and error be picked up in that initiative?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Social security: Progress on implementing the devolved benefits”

Meeting date: 23 June 2022

Colin Beattie

I will intervene at that point and ask one small question. You have some percentages, for example on satisfaction. What do we compare that to? A piece of data is just a piece of data until you can measure it against something.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Social security: Progress on implementing the devolved benefits”

Meeting date: 23 June 2022

Colin Beattie

Are you satisfied that the data will eventually be useful when it is developed and put together? This seems an opportunity to get the data collection right for once, as it is a new system.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Social security: Progress on implementing the devolved benefits”

Meeting date: 23 June 2022

Colin Beattie

The last area is the Scottish child payment. There has been reference made to the DWP in connection with this. You have highlighted in your report that there are huge challenges there in relation to timescales and data sharing. The extension of the payment relies on the DWP developing a new digital system and you have highlighted that there is not much space left for testing in advance of delivery, so a programme is being developed on design plans that cannot yet be tested. One of the lessons learned from the launch of the Scottish child payment for children under six was the need to plan and protect suitable time for system testing prior to implementation. Are you confident that the risk is being managed appropriately? What are the Scottish Government’s mitigation plans should the timescale slip due to circumstances outside its control? Do we have faith in the DWP managing to deliver in time?

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s economy: supporting businesses through the Covid-19 pandemic”

Meeting date: 23 June 2022

Colin Beattie

I would like to explore a bit further a couple of areas that have been touched on. We have been talking about data and the quality and availability of data in this committee ever since I can remember. I realise that the pandemic is pretty overwhelming and it is unlikely that anybody was prepared with data sets that could be used to report on it, but there seem to be differences in the way in which data is collected. Local council data seems to be somewhat more robust but non-council data appears to be being collected and presented in a way that I would describe as being random. East Renfrewshire is one of your examples and it has a significant proportion of non-council administrative funding compared to other areas. Are the differences due to the variable data collection at a local level or is it that data groups are linked to specific public bodies and it is difficult to bust that out? Where does that come in?

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s economy: supporting businesses through the Covid-19 pandemic”

Meeting date: 23 June 2022

Colin Beattie

When Ashleigh Madjitey answers, perhaps she could touch on the point that most non-council spending came through the council is some way. My understanding—and correct me if I am wrong—is that councils used non-council bodies to support them and some funds went directly from the Scottish Government to the non-council bodies. I hope that I am making that clear.

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s economy: supporting businesses through the Covid-19 pandemic”

Meeting date: 23 June 2022

Colin Beattie

I would like to change this a little bit to talk about fraud, which my colleague Craig Hoy touched on. We have discussed it in other evidence sessions and looked at what is being reported in the UK Government in terms of allegations of fraud and other irregularities around things such as personal protective equipment, in particular. I have seen the figure of £36 billion; I think that that was an official estimate of the money that had somehow gone missing in the system through payments to companies and so on. We hear of inappropriate PPE worth hundreds of millions of pounds having to be destroyed and PPE that was not delivered. It seems unlikely that we have completely body swerved that, given the sheer volumes of money that were paid out due to Covid, but I am not seeing that reflected in the information presented here. I have the suspicion, and I hope that you do too, that there is still more to come out on that.

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s economy: supporting businesses through the Covid-19 pandemic”

Meeting date: 23 June 2022

Colin Beattie

Finally, your briefing refers to the retrospective fraud risk review that the Scottish Government undertook on 11 major business funds that were administered by councils and other bodies. What are the fraud error rates for funds administered by public bodies and how does that compare with the funds administered by councils?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Social security: Progress on implementing the devolved benefits”

Meeting date: 23 June 2022

Colin Beattie

The next area is the adult disability payment. Your exhibit 2 highlights the huge increases that are expected in the scale of the activity to be undertaken by Social Security Scotland. One of the areas that have been highlighted is the lack of certainty around the levels of staffing that are required to administer the adult disability payment. The lack of certainty is a risk. Given the unknown resource implications of the benefit, how confident are you that Social Security Scotland is well placed to respond to the increase in demand? What is the plan?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Social security: Progress on implementing the devolved benefits”

Meeting date: 23 June 2022

Colin Beattie

I have no doubt that you will be reporting back on the implementation in due course.