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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 2 August 2025
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Displaying 2597 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 19 January 2023

Colin Beattie

Good morning, Auditor General. I am looking at fraud, which we have discussed before, specifically on the social security side. The benefit expenditure administered by the Department for Work and Pensions is £3.3 billion. According to the papers, you estimate that overpayments in Scotland could amount to £67.5 million. There are two questions on that. First, how do you calculate that out of thin air? Secondly, is that a normal level? Is that what would be expected?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 19 January 2023

Colin Beattie

I have just one last question on this particular—

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 19 January 2023

Colin Beattie

Okay. It relates to what I spoke about before. Is Social Security Scotland taking enough of the measures that it should take to assess levels of fraud and error in relation to the benefits that it directly administers?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 19 January 2023

Colin Beattie

In the early years, which is not that long ago, when Social Security Scotland was put in place, there was a relatively relaxed regime in respect of fraud. That was gradually tightened up as the volume and complexity of its work increased. Has the Scottish Government given you enough assurance around the assessment of fraud in this year’s accounts?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 19 January 2023

Colin Beattie

You said that the £67.5 million is the average across a number of component parts. Historically, how accurate have the estimates been?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 19 January 2023

Colin Beattie

Are you saying that it is not that accurate? In what way?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 19 January 2023

Colin Beattie

There is a formula. You can look back and see how close to reality that formula has been in the past. How close has it been?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 19 January 2023

Colin Beattie

You may recall that, some months ago, we discussed the Covid-19 business grant payments and the fraud levels there. That money came through local government, of course. I raised an issue that, south of the border, the fraud levels were massive—running into many millions—and yet, in Scotland, fraud levels were considered to be extremely small. I am pleased about that, but I am also suspicious about it. At that time, you were having another look at that. Now, according to our papers, there was a recovery of £504,000 of fraudulent Covid-19 business grant payments as at July 2022. Does that really reflect the level of fraud? Does it reflect good progress?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 19 January 2023

Colin Beattie

But it is happening.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 19 January 2023

Colin Beattie

I do not think that there is time at the moment. Are you okay with that?